Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Forget iPhone X–Apple's Best Product Is Its Privacy Stance

time.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 144 posts

Re: Forget iPhone X–Apple's Best Product Is Its Privacy Stance

#101

Post by cmsimike »

sigmar wrote: post #100
artimaeis wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see what you're getting at but that decision has little/nothing to do with Apple's stance on privacy. * iMessage still uses end-to-end encryption for messages in China. * iPhones sold in China still utilize Secure Enclave for privacy/encryption. * Aggregate data still uses differential privacy in China. The government made a request of them which did not compromise their user's security, and they obliged. Compare t…

>* iMessage still uses end-to-end encryption for messages in China. Do you think Apple would refuse to swap out the public keys if ordered to by the government? Have you ever wondered why iMessage doesn't allow out-of-band key verification?

This is my fear. Apple nicely shows all devices on my account, but how do I trust there aren't some invisible NSA devices on my account that also get all my iMessages?

Re: Forget iPhone X–Apple's Best Product Is Its Privacy Stance

#102

Post by zeveb »

MBCook wrote: post #64
freehunter wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Refuse to follow the law and withdraw from the market completely? Your tone of voice seems to indicate you don't think that's actually an option.

You can’t do that. It’s China. It’s one of the largest markets on Earth and Apple is a public company. Cook would immediately be fired by the board. They’d put someone new in, and that someone new would comply with China’s demand. And no one would be better off. As Cook says at least Apple does the best they can and holds the line on other things like encrypting iMessage.

> Cook would immediately be fired by the board. They’d put someone new in, and that someone new would comply with China’s demand.

That would indeed take courage and principles on Cook's part. If the board had courage & principles they wouldn't fire him. And if they did — they'd demonstrate what sort of men they are.

> And no one would be better off.

Tim Cook would have his self-respect.

Re: Forget iPhone X–Apple's Best Product Is Its Privacy Stance

#103

Post by ewzimm »

artimaeis wrote: post #93
exitreturn123 wrote: post #48

I work closely with Apple so need to post anonymously. I believed everything in this until something that happened in late July this past summer. In China, their fastest-growing market, China demanded all secure messaging and VPN apps be removed from the App Store and Apple complied.[1] So privacy matters, unless it's in your fastest-growing market. I intend to discuss with Tim next time I see him. 1: https://techcru…

I see what you're getting at but that decision has little/nothing to do with Apple's stance on privacy. * iMessage still uses end-to-end encryption for messages in China. * iPhones sold in China still utilize Secure Enclave for privacy/encryption. * Aggregate data still uses differential privacy in China. The government made a request of them which did not compromise their user's security, and they obliged. Compare t…

This also shows that if we care about the preservation of privacy, we can't depend on technology to solve the problem on its own. No matter how well-engineered software might be, it's ultimately subordiate to national and international law. A company can refuse to cooperate up to a point, but a government can always force it to either comply or cease doing business.

The Verge's recent technology survey showed that at least its audience believes that Google and Amazon are better protectors of personal privacy than Apple, so their strong stance on encryption and privacy is not yet completely effective in differentiating them from competitors. Hopefully articles like this will enhance the perceived value of privacy, because we need both private and public entities to agree on privacy for it to be effective.

Re: Forget iPhone X–Apple's Best Product Is Its Privacy Stance

#104

Post by rconti »

andreareina wrote: post #2

The iPhone is unbelievably fragile, before you look at the high price. Apple bends over backwards to deny the existence of design flaws, to the point of blaming users for doing it wrong. Despite this I am seriously considering an iPhone, their stance on privacy is the only reason.

They're certainly fragile, but I don't believe they're any more fragile than other major flagship phones.

Re: Forget iPhone X–Apple's Best Product Is Its Privacy Stance

#105

Post by mikestew »

damnyou wrote: post #50
013a wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think its more complicated than that. There are reports that Apple has an internal committee, including a high level executive, dubbed their "privacy czars" which are required to unanimously sign off on any instance of user data collection, and this committee has actively limited products like Siri over concerns [1] There's also the San Bernadino customer letter, which has become a defining point in their privacy h…

Do you really think other companies don't have internal privacy reviews?

My experience leads me to believe that many other companies have privacy reviews only to the level required to keep them out of legal trouble. It is an inconvenience, not a feature.

Re: Forget iPhone X–Apple's Best Product Is Its Privacy Stance

#106

Post by frickinLasers »

astral303 wrote: post #91
matthewmacleod wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or in actuality, it’s just sloppy IP geolocation.

Indeed, Occam's razor says poor IP geolocation. What are the chances that you are being monitored by NSA from Texas, or that the geolocation database is stale or wrong?

Out of curiosity, what are the chances this geolocation error also exists 170 miles away? I had the exact same thing happen a few weeks ago, from just east of Chicago.

Re: Forget iPhone X–Apple's Best Product Is Its Privacy Stance

#107

Post by ariwilson »

MBCook wrote: post #96
martinald wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. They also have all manufacturing there. I imagine if Apple did pull out it would be so embarrassing to the Chinese govt they would close the foxconn facilities too.

I hadn’t even thought of the manufacture angle. If Apple were to pull out, even if the board didn’t fire Cook for that... would they be able to make phones? Is ANYWHERE on Earth capable of that other than China? I suppose you could buy all the parts from China and have them shipped somewhere else to be assembled but what would that do to the cost of the devices? Would anyone buy an iPhone that starts at $1500 or $200…

South Korea is capable of that.

Re: Forget iPhone X–Apple's Best Product Is Its Privacy Stance

#108

Post by GeekyBear »

CaptSpify wrote: post #67
andreareina wrote: post #2

The iPhone is unbelievably fragile, before you look at the high price. Apple bends over backwards to deny the existence of design flaws, to the point of blaming users for doing it wrong. Despite this I am seriously considering an iPhone, their stance on privacy is the only reason.

The only real reason I haven't switched is because they won't give me control of my phone. At least with Android I can root it, install custom roms, and mess with pretty much any non-google software that I have on there. Android is far from perfect, and I still hate it, but at least I can still control most of it.

The iOS equivalent of rooting your device is called a jailbreak.

>Jailbreaking permits root access to iOS, allowing the downloading and installation of additional applications, extensions, and themes that are unavailable through the official Apple App Store.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ios_jailbreak

Re: Forget iPhone X–Apple's Best Product Is Its Privacy Stance

#109

Post by praneshp »

new299 wrote: post #85
mcphage wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why would you want to "praise" a company. [...] Make sure it's known that you're buying their product because they support your interests. That's commonly known as praising a company. "Thanks, Apple, for supporting privacy!"

To me that's a business transaction. Praise would be "Thanks, Apple, for supporting privacy!" then not necessarily buying any of their products.

That's what I do.

I have a corp Macbook, but no Apple products bought out of my money.

Re: Forget iPhone X–Apple's Best Product Is Its Privacy Stance

#110

Post by jrs95 »

astral303 wrote: post #90
hellcow wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple's documented history of working with the NSA to undermine the privacy of its users: PRISM. Tim Cook struck that deal with the NSA and remains CEO today.

It is not true that Tim Cook struck a deal with the NSA. Nor is it true that Apple has worked with the NSA for PRISM. NSA likely exploited the SSL vulnerability in iOS 6.0 (released Sept 2012, NSA added Apple Oct 2012) and got access to snoop on Apple's data. After pulling the phrase "participate knowingly" out of thin air, Washington Post was forced to walk back that statement: "Hours after the news broke, and every…

That it's essentially legal for "the intelligence community" to do this sort of thing is insane.
Post reply on HN