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Forget iPhone X–Apple's Best Product Is Its Privacy Stance

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Re: Forget iPhone X–Apple's Best Product Is Its Privacy Stance

#81

Post by sosborn »

jkestner wrote: post #38
dep_b wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ad system for apps doesn't even exist anymore.

Yes, Apple itself gives me more control over privacy than just about anyone. On the other hand, it facilitated an app ecosystem where most apps have to make money through ads, data collection, or crappy in-game purchases, and there goes my privacy. Maybe the largest company in the world is powerless to stop people from wanting free software, but that's also a major reason it's the largest company in the world.

Would you blame Apple for the current state of the web? People in general prefer the free option.

Re: Forget iPhone X–Apple's Best Product Is Its Privacy Stance

#82

Post by ksk »

exitreturn123 wrote: post #48

I work closely with Apple so need to post anonymously. I believed everything in this until something that happened in late July this past summer. In China, their fastest-growing market, China demanded all secure messaging and VPN apps be removed from the App Store and Apple complied.[1] So privacy matters, unless it's in your fastest-growing market. I intend to discuss with Tim next time I see him. 1: https://techcru…

I don't support their decision, but that is a weak argument. All major companies have factories they work with in China. They are already funneling money to the Chinese government via taxes, fees, etc. In the privacy pie, removing the apps is this tiny sliver, the major chunk of the pie is where the Chinese government continues to get revenue to fund their censorship apparatus.

Re: Forget iPhone X–Apple's Best Product Is Its Privacy Stance

#83

Post by martinald »

beojan wrote: post #72
chimeracoder wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can’t do that. It’s China. It’s one of the largest markets on Earth and Apple is a public company. Cook would immediately be fired by the board. They’d put someone new in, and that someone new would comply with China’s demand. Somehow, that didn't happen when Google effectively withdrew from China.

Apple's business requires physical presence. Google's largely doesn't.

Yes. They also have all manufacturing there. I imagine if Apple did pull out it would be so embarrassing to the Chinese govt they would close the foxconn facilities too.

Re: Forget iPhone X–Apple's Best Product Is Its Privacy Stance

#84

Post by djrogers »

chimeracoder wrote: post #69
MBCook wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can’t do that. It’s China. It’s one of the largest markets on Earth and Apple is a public company. Cook would immediately be fired by the board. They’d put someone new in, and that someone new would comply with China’s demand. And no one would be better off. As Cook says at least Apple does the best they can and holds the line on other things like encrypting iMessage.

> You can’t do that. It’s China. It’s one of the largest markets on Earth and Apple is a public company. Cook would immediately be fired by the board. They’d put someone new in, and that someone new would comply with China’s demand. Somehow, that didn't happen when Google effectively withdrew from China.

Google's revenue from China wasn't significant, and Google didn't withdraw because China wanted them to pull a few apps...

Re: Forget iPhone X–Apple's Best Product Is Its Privacy Stance

#85

Post by new299 »

mcphage wrote: post #43
new299 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you want to "praise" a company. Publicly traded companies operate for financial gain. If you feel a company is supporting your interests you might want to consider buy their products. Make sure it's known that you're buying their product because they support your interests. They will hopefully see that it's good business to continue doing so. That's a much more robust way to get the products (and ecosystem)…

> Why would you want to "praise" a company. [...] Make sure it's known that you're buying their product because they support your interests. That's commonly known as praising a company. "Thanks, Apple, for supporting privacy!"

To me that's a business transaction. Praise would be "Thanks, Apple, for supporting privacy!" then not necessarily buying any of their products.

Re: Forget iPhone X–Apple's Best Product Is Its Privacy Stance

#86

Post by criddell »

MBCook wrote: post #68
criddell wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> some with the advertisement industry I'm always interested when people say this. Say I want to buy some person's data. Is there a way I can do that with Facebook, Microsoft, or Google?

No, because it’s far too valuable to them. If they sold it it wouldn’t be valuable for long. They do it ‘the other way’. You say “I want to buy some eyeballs like X” and they sell you access to the eyeballs. But they don’t give you the person’s information.

That's what I thought. So my private information isn't really shared with anybody, is it? I mean I guess if I were to place an ad targeted to black men that speak french and you answered it, I would learn that about you.

Re: Forget iPhone X–Apple's Best Product Is Its Privacy Stance

#87

Post by mcphage »

new299 wrote: post #85
mcphage wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why would you want to "praise" a company. [...] Make sure it's known that you're buying their product because they support your interests. That's commonly known as praising a company. "Thanks, Apple, for supporting privacy!"

To me that's a business transaction. Praise would be "Thanks, Apple, for supporting privacy!" then not necessarily buying any of their products.

> To me that's a business transaction.

But that doesn't make clear why you're buying their product, or which of their attitudes you want to reinforce.

Re: Forget iPhone X–Apple's Best Product Is Its Privacy Stance

#88

Post by joshuamorton »

stingraycharles wrote: post #80
joshuamorton wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Refuse to follow the law and withdraw from the market completely? That's exactly what Google did: https://googleblog.blogspot.com/2010/01/new-approach-to-chin...

Wasn’t that a response of one of their Chinese offices being hacked with the intention of corporate espionage? As far as I’m aware, from a privacy perspective, Google never had moral problems doing business in China. They’re just using it as a convenient excuse that makes them look good.

>These attacks and the surveillance they have uncovered--combined with the attempts over the past year to further limit free speech on the web--have led us to conclude that we should review the feasibility of our business operations in China. We have decided we are no longer willing to continue censoring our results on Google.cn, and so over the next few weeks we will be discussing with the Chinese government the basis on which we could operate an unfiltered search engine within the law, if at all.

In other words, government censorship and attempts by the government to undermine user privacy were ultimately what led to the move out of China. The straw does appear to have been the hack, but the ultimate goal of the hack appeared to be to steal user data.

>Second, we have evidence to suggest that a primary goal of the attackers was accessing the Gmail accounts of Chinese human rights activists.

Re: Forget iPhone X–Apple's Best Product Is Its Privacy Stance

#89

Post by j2bax »

exitreturn123 wrote: post #48

I work closely with Apple so need to post anonymously. I believed everything in this until something that happened in late July this past summer. In China, their fastest-growing market, China demanded all secure messaging and VPN apps be removed from the App Store and Apple complied.[1] So privacy matters, unless it's in your fastest-growing market. I intend to discuss with Tim next time I see him. 1: https://techcru…

I fear the grand majority of people and companies prefer economic advantage over what's right at the end of the day.

Re: Forget iPhone X–Apple's Best Product Is Its Privacy Stance

#90

Post by astral303 »

hellcow wrote: post #73
0xJRS wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who does own an iPhone i'm genuinely curious what your largest concerns are about its privacy

Apple's documented history of working with the NSA to undermine the privacy of its users: PRISM. Tim Cook struck that deal with the NSA and remains CEO today.

It is not true that Tim Cook struck a deal with the NSA. Nor is it true that Apple has worked with the NSA for PRISM.

NSA likely exploited the SSL vulnerability in iOS 6.0 (released Sept 2012, NSA added Apple Oct 2012) and got access to snoop on Apple's data.

After pulling the phrase "participate knowingly" out of thin air, Washington Post was forced to walk back that statement:

"Hours after the news broke, and every company bar PalTalk and AOL denied any knowledge of the program and allegations of their involvement, the Post has changed its stance. The phrase “participate knowingly” has been removed from the article, a new passage suggests the firms were unaware of PRISM"

https://thenextweb.com/us/2013/06/07/wapost-backtracks-on-cl...

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