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We only hire the best means we only hire the trendiest (2016)

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Re: We only hire the best means we only hire the trendiest (2016)

#191

Post by scientistem »

driverdan wrote: post #83
chirau wrote: post #9

I disagree with this article, to some extent at least. Perhaps it's specific for trendy companies and startups. Most of which are just looking for the next shiny object, true. However, when you look at companies that move the needle in different industries, companies that have repute, market share and profitability, they couldn't care less what is trending these days. They look for domain expertise and excellence. I…

Except all of those companies put an unreasonable amount of weight on degrees. Good luck getting Google to talk to you if you didn't graduate a top collage, let alone not having a degree.

This is completely false. I have no degree, and it’s not super difficult to get through the interview stage at google (depends on what part of the stack you’re aimed at, though). People went out of their way to say the degree has negligible weight.

YMMV. Personally I see people as their own greatest barrier for these sorts of things without firm evidence to the contrary.

Re: We only hire the best means we only hire the trendiest (2016)

#192

Post by lostboys67 »

arethuza wrote: post #8
orf wrote: post #3

> We like to think that we’re different from all those industries that judge people based on appearance, but we do the same thing, only instead of saying that people are a bad fit because they don’t wear ties, we say they’re a bad fit because they do, and instead of saying people aren’t smart enough because they don’t have the right pedigree… wait, that’s exactly the same. This is a great quote and an interesting poi…

"I fear I might if they continued to wear something overly formal at work" Why would you be bothered about what someone wears at work - formal or informal?

as long as its not brown shoes in town :-)

Re: We only hire the best means we only hire the trendiest (2016)

#193

Post by lostboys67 »

teknologist wrote: post #62
arethuza wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can be it be an act of conformity to dress formally in an environment where it isn't the done thing?

Suits often all look very similar for one.

You don't know anything about tailoring / fashion then :-) the I am an 80's boy so crocket and tubs where my sartorial role models

Re: We only hire the best means we only hire the trendiest (2016)

#194

Post by klibertp »

cableshaft wrote: post #164
Datenstrom wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes the Navy "trained" me by saying "here are 20,000 pages of documentation on the E-2 Airborne Early Warning aircraft avionics, now go fix it". That has nothing to do with my CS studies, of which I have learned nothing from college and could have CLEPed a BS degree on day one if it was possible and moved on to a masters where I should have been initially placed. > I'm sure you don't know everything. I never claimed…

How many classes did you take in college? Because my first few CS classes I didn't learn a whole lot from either. It wasn't really until the 200 and 300 level classes that I started learning anything substantial that I hadn't picked up on my own beforehand.

If waiting for 2-3 years before you're able to learn anything substantial is considered normal - and we're not talking about monasteries and such - then I think there is something seriously wrong with the system.

Re: We only hire the best means we only hire the trendiest (2016)

#195

Post by lostboys67 »

jcadam wrote: post #143
TheArcane wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and instead of saying people aren’t smart enough because they don’t have the right pedigree… wait, that’s exactly the same. Does this still happen?

Of course, I still see job postings requiring a "CS degree from a top school." I think it's great they come right out and admit that they're a bunch of elitist douche-bags so I don't even bother applying. Could you imagine working at such a place with a degree from a :shudder: public university?

My first job was on campus at Cranfield University which regarded those top schools as "alright" (ad Stanford wasn't on the list btw) for your first degree but you had better got a first had the right supervisors.

Re: We only hire the best means we only hire the trendiest (2016)

#196

Post by throwme211345 »

Delmania wrote: post #87
driverdan wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except all of those companies put an unreasonable amount of weight on degrees. Good luck getting Google to talk to you if you didn't graduate a top collage, let alone not having a degree.

There are advantages to going to college over a boot camp or self learning. In fact, CS and SE degrees are ones that pay for themselves. If you're not willing to put in the work, that tells me you won't last long at Google.

That is complete crap. Programmers have the same ladder as professional athletes. You can be amazing at 17 or 36 without collegiate training and indoctrination.

Re: We only hire the best means we only hire the trendiest (2016)

#197

Post by dimman »

Delmania wrote: post #99
dimman wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because life can't happen? I don't agree with money > people

Where exactly did I say that was not the case? There are plenty of options for getting a college degree, and there are way to get a job at these companies with needing. However, if you're going to try to get one be sending in your resume, expect to get turned down without a degree. Beyond that, software development is plagued by this mindset that college degrees are useless and that only self taught people are worth…

I was referring to "If you're not willing to put in the work...". Some people are more than willing to put in the work but there are things in life that might hinder them from doing so at the time. People take a break in their studies for (various) personal reasons and some end up working in the field despite never finishing to get a degree.

"...expect to get turned down without a degree" and "...software development is plagued by this mindset that college degrees are useless ..."

My point is that there's a middle way. Only looking at degress is stupid because it doesn't guarantee anything other than that they got a degree. With that in mind it doesn't make sense to instantly disqualify people without a degree either.

Re: We only hire the best means we only hire the trendiest (2016)

#198

Post by brightball »

astura wrote: post #179
brightball wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve never even heard of an interviewer knocking someone for having more than one language on their resume. I’m not saying you need 10 or all the trendiest things. You need at least 2. Programming is a job of constant problem solving. If you’ve done the job close to 10 years and never seen a problem with the language that you are using...that actually tells me more about you than any other question I can answer. It t…

>If you’ve done the job close to 10 years and never seen a problem with the language that you are using Only having professional experience with %LANGUAGE% does not mean you've never seen a problem with %LANGUAGE%. Why on Earth would you assume that? If you're doing paid work you get minimal input on what technology stacks the projects you are working on use and 99.9% of the time that decision has already been made b…

> Why on Earth would you assume that?

Because you've been in the field for 10 years and never once looked for a solution to that problem. It's a giant red flag.

> Absolute nonsense.

Explain why please. That's basic human behavior.

Re: We only hire the best means we only hire the trendiest (2016)

#199

Post by dimman »

DarronWyke wrote: post #178
Delmania wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where exactly did I say that was not the case? There are plenty of options for getting a college degree, and there are way to get a job at these companies with needing. However, if you're going to try to get one be sending in your resume, expect to get turned down without a degree. Beyond that, software development is plagued by this mindset that college degrees are useless and that only self taught people are worth…

>Beyond that, software development is plagued by this mindset that college degrees are useless and that only self taught people are worth looking into. Ugh, yes. I've worked for a leading SIM and smart card manufacturer and they required a 4-year degree to even get in the door. I interviewed countless people, including some who were able to answer some quite technical questions that others couldn't. And many of those…

One doesn't prove the other, that's my point. The only thing that can be said is that a degree doesn't prove if someone fits a position or not, it only proves they've finished an education.

I've also been in the field for many years and held several interviews. My takeaway, to put it a bit clumsy: "knowledge is easy to fix, mindset and experience not as easy."

Re: We only hire the best means we only hire the trendiest (2016)

#200

Post by falcolas »

brightball wrote: post #38
tobyhinloopen wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is also finding a balance of course. All these technologies you mention are good for most webdevelopment projects. No point in writing everything in a different language

True but it does show exploration and curiosity to at least try another language or two. If you’ve been doing .NET or PHP for 5+ years without even trying something else I’d treat it as a red flag too. Level of interest is the #1 quality in the great programmers I’ve been around. If you aren’t exploring even a little that’s a concern.

Making the assumption we're talking about good programmers here:

If you've been doing .NET or PHP for 5+ years, you're just now starting to become an expert at those languages and their environments. That 5+ years experience could just as easily display dedication and care about their craft; a commitment to understanding the ins and outs of their tools.

For example, who would you rather have write your payment gateway code: someone who sticks to a project for years and handles the nitty-gritty details, or someone who finishes the blue sky MVP and moves on to the next project every year?

I'd go so far to say that if a candidate has 5 languages on their resume for 5 years of work, they've raised a red flag. Why haven't they stuck with any of them?

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