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We only hire the best means we only hire the trendiest (2016)

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Re: We only hire the best means we only hire the trendiest (2016)

#91

Post by triplesec »

CoolGuySteve wrote: post #73
cheez wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure they may lose some great candidates that way, but the reality is that they don't want people in finance because: 1. They have preconceived notions about how finance "should" work 2. People not from finance are driven by other things This is not to say that there aren't people from finance who don't fall under this, but it's a good way to weed them out without inviting a billion applications from people in financ…

So then by your own admission they’re not hiring the best due to this heuristic. One thing my experience in HFT has taught me is that technical ability is only loosely correlated with profitability. So I wouldn't conflate Renaissance's success with their hiring practices.

Two things: 1. what was more or equally important than technical ability for HFT programmers' success in increasing profitability for the company? That was an interesting statement: can you elaborate?

2. That fun might have these heuristics that GP talks of, and for them, the people they hire may well be the best for them. As in, motivated and attitudinally oriented towards what they want, and more able to work free from the assumptions of _knowing_ how it's done in finance. They may be wrong in your case, but that's how heuristics work. To me, that's less of a bullshit case than trendy languages etc.

Re: We only hire the best means we only hire the trendiest (2016)

#92

Post by brightball »

astura wrote: post #70
brightball wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True but it does show exploration and curiosity to at least try another language or two. If you’ve been doing .NET or PHP for 5+ years without even trying something else I’d treat it as a red flag too. Level of interest is the #1 quality in the great programmers I’ve been around. If you aren’t exploring even a little that’s a concern.

How silly. Level of interest [in doing unpaid work] doesn't mean a damn thing as far as skill level and work ethic are concerned. Some of the best programmers I've ever met were the 9-5 types and the absolute worst of the worst programmer I've even known spent all his free time writing code. Once you get past 30 it's difficult to spend all your free time doing unpaid work even if you wanted to.

If you’re past 30 you’ve probably been programming for at least 8 years. If you’ve never touched another language...yes...that is a concern.

Re: We only hire the best means we only hire the trendiest (2016)

#93

Post by wolfgke »

jstewartmobile wrote: post #86

It would be nice if the process were a little more transparent. If people just knew that a company rejected them for reason X, that would make a huge difference. If X were stupid, they'd know they missed a bullet. If X were rooted in a misunderstanding, they'd have a chance to clear it up. There is so much side-channel information used in the corporate hiring process, and it gets mixed-up in HR far more often than an…

> If people just knew that a company rejected them for reason X, that would make a huge difference.

Give a thanks to the discrimination laws. Companies don't want to give any leads for getting sued.

Re: We only hire the best means we only hire the trendiest (2016)

#94

Post by dimman »

Delmania wrote: post #87
driverdan wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except all of those companies put an unreasonable amount of weight on degrees. Good luck getting Google to talk to you if you didn't graduate a top collage, let alone not having a degree.

There are advantages to going to college over a boot camp or self learning. In fact, CS and SE degrees are ones that pay for themselves. If you're not willing to put in the work, that tells me you won't last long at Google.

Because life can't happen? I don't agree with money > people

Re: We only hire the best means we only hire the trendiest (2016)

#95

Post by triplesec »

lmm wrote: post #55
arethuza wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can be it be an act of conformity to dress formally in an environment where it isn't the done thing?

It's not an act of conformity in that context, but it's usually an act of conformity. The most likely explanation I can see for someone dressing formally in an informal environment is a habit of conformity coupled with an insensitivity to change in social environment, neither of which seems like a desirable quality.

True, but only if they repeat it more than a couple of times, after they have had time to take on their environment and adapt! (or if a new graduate, afford clothes that fit the 'new conformity' of the particular office casualness...)

Re: We only hire the best means we only hire the trendiest (2016)

#97

Post by wavefunction »

Delmania wrote: post #87
driverdan wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except all of those companies put an unreasonable amount of weight on degrees. Good luck getting Google to talk to you if you didn't graduate a top collage, let alone not having a degree.

There are advantages to going to college over a boot camp or self learning. In fact, CS and SE degrees are ones that pay for themselves. If you're not willing to put in the work, that tells me you won't last long at Google.

I had to leave college early due to a family thing and start working to contribute. That was eighteen years ago, and I've put in so much work because I run into attitudes like yours.

Of course, in the past twenty four hours I've created an app and potential side-business from a technology stack I had absolutely no experience in any of it just to prove to a potential employer I can do 'front-end' stuff for them.

The average developer can't even CSS, don't even play with that 'degrees are the ultimate arbiter' mess.

Re: We only hire the best means we only hire the trendiest (2016)

#98

Post by Datenstrom »

Delmania wrote: post #87
driverdan wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except all of those companies put an unreasonable amount of weight on degrees. Good luck getting Google to talk to you if you didn't graduate a top collage, let alone not having a degree.

There are advantages to going to college over a boot camp or self learning. In fact, CS and SE degrees are ones that pay for themselves. If you're not willing to put in the work, that tells me you won't last long at Google.

Being self taught I haven't learned a single thing in college. Besides networking I do not see any advantage.

> If you're not willing to put in the work

Why should anyone who already knows everything for a degree have to waste 4-6 years of their life?

Re: We only hire the best means we only hire the trendiest (2016)

#99

Post by Delmania »

dimman wrote: post #94
Delmania wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are advantages to going to college over a boot camp or self learning. In fact, CS and SE degrees are ones that pay for themselves. If you're not willing to put in the work, that tells me you won't last long at Google.

Because life can't happen? I don't agree with money > people

Where exactly did I say that was not the case? There are plenty of options for getting a college degree, and there are way to get a job at these companies with needing. However, if you're going to try to get one be sending in your resume, expect to get turned down without a degree.

Beyond that, software development is plagued by this mindset that college degrees are useless and that only self taught people are worth looking into. I've worked with many college educated people who can't write good code, and I've worked with many self-taught people who really don't understand what they're doing. The best has always been a person who went to school and then continued on learning after the fact.

Re: We only hire the best means we only hire the trendiest (2016)

#100

Post by YokoZar »

driverdan wrote: post #83
chirau wrote: post #9

I disagree with this article, to some extent at least. Perhaps it's specific for trendy companies and startups. Most of which are just looking for the next shiny object, true. However, when you look at companies that move the needle in different industries, companies that have repute, market share and profitability, they couldn't care less what is trending these days. They look for domain expertise and excellence. I…

Except all of those companies put an unreasonable amount of weight on degrees. Good luck getting Google to talk to you if you didn't graduate a top collage, let alone not having a degree.

The people I know who never got a CS education yet ended up programming got their break interviewing at Google. Google seems more comparatively willing to hire those without degrees since there's so much confidence in the interview process.
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