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The concept of schizophrenia is dying

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Re: The concept of schizophrenia is dying

#81

Post by StavrosK »

coldtea wrote: post #70
StavrosK wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Granted, I haven't really taken any large doses, but for me psychoactives don't expand my perception in any way. They're just a really really fun thing to do a few times a year, when I have nothing else to do for 8 hours. I never experienced the spiritual element, or oneness with the universe, etc. Maybe I need to take more than 100ug. I definitely feel it's a pity that it's illegal and so demonized, though. It's the…

Or insist on actual LSD and not some cheap psychoactive passing as such?

Pretty sure it was LSD (and mushrooms once), I've bought from different people.

Re: The concept of schizophrenia is dying

#82

Post by harofax »

coldtea wrote: post #73
d33 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's definitely not the case in Poland, which is part of the EU.

Yeah, hence "western" -- for me the "real" EU would always be the early 12 states :-)

In Sweden, which I definitely consider to be part of the "civilized western part of the world", getting caught with weed has dire consequences.

Re: The concept of schizophrenia is dying

#83

Post by I_am_tiberius »

hutzlibu wrote: post #78
RHSman2 wrote: post #15

I’d suggest that not taking a drug (weed/lsd/mushrooms) that alter ones perceptions of our very existence is a good way of staying mentally sound. If you take ten 16 yr olds, allow them to experiment, 1-2 will drop off the world, 2-3 will have major, life changing changes to the way they view life (border line changes in said spectrum) and the rest handle it fine although with a significant change in lifestyle. As so…

I agree. Weed (etc.) can not be healthy "for fitting into normal, standard life". But there is a different view to it, than just claiming "drugs are bad". Because there are quite some people claiming, that a "normal, standard life" with a 9 to 5 job and bounded by many weird social customs in a hectic enviroment which very often rewards lying and assholeness - is in itself not healthy. And some drugs can enable peopl…

"very often rewards lying and assholeness". How true.

Re: The concept of schizophrenia is dying

#84

Post by Thews »

vlehto wrote: post #76
coldtea wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If I use myself as example. I don't use any psychedelics because I'm completely satisfied with my level of creativity. As a result it's possible that we completely lack data on how psychedelics mingle with naturally high creativity. Given that tons of (already very creative) musicians, painters, writers, etc have tried and used them, I really doubt this...

You don't need to be creative to sing or play. You need to be creative to compose. Do we actually know that many creative musicians, writers etc. were creative before using? I'd imagine it's really tricky to track down the starting dates of drug use. Or when someone started composing for that matter. But yeah, that was just to illustrate the point anyhow. And the point is that people self select heavily on which drug…

Could you try them and let us know, instead of speculating what may or may not exist?

Re: The concept of schizophrenia is dying

#85

Post by RHSman2 »

hutzlibu wrote: post #78
RHSman2 wrote: post #15

I’d suggest that not taking a drug (weed/lsd/mushrooms) that alter ones perceptions of our very existence is a good way of staying mentally sound. If you take ten 16 yr olds, allow them to experiment, 1-2 will drop off the world, 2-3 will have major, life changing changes to the way they view life (border line changes in said spectrum) and the rest handle it fine although with a significant change in lifestyle. As so…

I agree. Weed (etc.) can not be healthy "for fitting into normal, standard life". But there is a different view to it, than just claiming "drugs are bad". Because there are quite some people claiming, that a "normal, standard life" with a 9 to 5 job and bounded by many weird social customs in a hectic enviroment which very often rewards lying and assholeness - is in itself not healthy. And some drugs can enable peopl…

I don't disagree BUT there is a cost with consumption In My Opinion.

p.s. I was part of the ten 16 yr olds. I am very aware of how far it can go.

Re: The concept of schizophrenia is dying

#86

Post by I_am_tiberius »

bane wrote: post #77

I grew up with a close uncle who suffered for decades from this disease. The tales of his brilliant youth, on track as a naval nuclear engineer, are only more tragic to the shattered shell of a man I knew. Most of his treatment involved a cocktail mix of a dozen or so "medicines" who's primary purpose appeared to be to keep him sedated for long stretches of the day. He was absolutely unable to hold a job, or even a c…

I know somebody who was brilliant (I mean brilliant as hell) as well until the age of about 20. He started suffering from bipolar disorder later on (at about 23). Between that age he was registered at university but was not attending it. Instead he was partying all the time. I noticed him acting odd first when he came back from a trip to the other side of the world - my impression was that the jet-lag in combination with alcohol consumption and the realization that other people made a lot of progress during the years he was partying helped initiating the illness. I think summarized the factors were lack of sleep, alcohol, stress and high vulnerability due to inheritance.

Therefore I think the best way to prevent this illness is:

- Avoid stress, especially in your 20's

- Try to have an ordered life

- Get enough sleep

- Avoid too much alcohol consumption

- Do sports (rarely a mistake I assume)

- Take jet-lags seriously

I am not sure if drugs (from the trip to the other side of the world) were involved. It is possible but I doubt it.

Re: The concept of schizophrenia is dying

#87

Post by phkahler »

coldtea wrote: post #64
manmal wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would not call him genius. Alfred Adler perhaps was. Freud was a misogyn and a drug addict, and he proposed a lot of theories that leave modern people scratching their heads. Eg he attributed almost all mental problems to sexuality, coined the ridiculous Oedipus complex, and once called girls „strange little beings without a penis“. Sure, the field was at the very beginning, but why did he always have to bring peni…

> Freud was a misogyn and a drug addict, and he proposed a lot of theories that leave modern people scratching their heads. All three are totally orthogonal to someone being a genius -- and at least the second is a very puritan concern to level at someone regarding their contributions to science/culture/etc. > Eg he attributed almost all mental problems to sexuality And a heck of a lot (of the soft kind, not physiolo…

>> >coined the ridiculous Oedipus complex

>> Nothing ridiculous about it

Except that Freud suffered from it himself - he had a thing for his own mother - and then projected his shame onto patients to such an extent that he thought it was the foundation of everyones problems.

The challenge with analysis is that it needs to be done by the patient. Only they can see/hear whats going on in their head.

Re: The concept of schizophrenia is dying

#88

Post by I_am_tiberius »

I_am_tiberius wrote: post #86
bane wrote: post #77

I grew up with a close uncle who suffered for decades from this disease. The tales of his brilliant youth, on track as a naval nuclear engineer, are only more tragic to the shattered shell of a man I knew. Most of his treatment involved a cocktail mix of a dozen or so "medicines" who's primary purpose appeared to be to keep him sedated for long stretches of the day. He was absolutely unable to hold a job, or even a c…

I know somebody who was brilliant (I mean brilliant as hell) as well until the age of about 20. He started suffering from bipolar disorder later on (at about 23). Between that age he was registered at university but was not attending it. Instead he was partying all the time. I noticed him acting odd first when he came back from a trip to the other side of the world - my impression was that the jet-lag in combination…

I forgot to mention: He was smoking a lot as well.

Re: The concept of schizophrenia is dying

#89

Post by CuriouslyC »

StavrosK wrote: post #45
gabuzome wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While the experience itself may resemble psychosis at times, lsd/mushrooms, when taken in a proper setting, will not turn you mentally unsound. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3747247/ "21,967 respondents (13.4% weighted) reported lifetime psychedelic use. There were no significant associations between lifetime use of any psychedelics, lifetime use of specific psychedelics (LSD, psilocybin, mescaline, pe…

Granted, I haven't really taken any large doses, but for me psychoactives don't expand my perception in any way. They're just a really really fun thing to do a few times a year, when I have nothing else to do for 8 hours. I never experienced the spiritual element, or oneness with the universe, etc. Maybe I need to take more than 100ug. I definitely feel it's a pity that it's illegal and so demonized, though. It's the…

LSD is hit or miss for that really deep trancendent experience. There is a lot of low quality acid that just feels speedy with some visual enhancement.

Try Ayahuasca. In my experience it is much more consistently mystical.

Re: The concept of schizophrenia is dying

#90

Post by RHSman2 »

adammunich wrote: post #19
RHSman2 wrote: post #15

I’d suggest that not taking a drug (weed/lsd/mushrooms) that alter ones perceptions of our very existence is a good way of staying mentally sound. If you take ten 16 yr olds, allow them to experiment, 1-2 will drop off the world, 2-3 will have major, life changing changes to the way they view life (border line changes in said spectrum) and the rest handle it fine although with a significant change in lifestyle. As so…

How do you mean? Most folks I know who regularly use marijuana aren't close to anything I'd call schizoaffective. Those who I know whom have gone off the deep end so to say, seem to have had other troubles in life which compounded to become too much to handle for them.

Are you replying to me? So, you are suggesting my story is lies? I guess you should study stats to know that there are more than 60 people in this world.
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