The concept of schizophrenia is dying • Hacker News Board

Re: The concept of schizophrenia is dying

#51

Post by Pica_soO » Tue, Oct 31, 2017, 10:23 AM UTC

ivkustov wrote: post #46

Pica_soO wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Freud is dead. Dead and gone. We moved on. Really, i know he founded the field and made for a nice soap opera gossip generator when discussing other peoples problems sources (generating alot of unnecessary drama, to people who already had drama, like having the genes for schizophrenia in the family)- so please could we stop mentioning him, when discussing modern neurology. Its like a tribe on a pacific island had dis…

We actually shouldn't. The psychoanalysis is contempted and forgotten however psychoanalysis is something like a computer language, the language of human inner world. Some kind of lisp with probably terrible interpreter. The modern neuroscience is of course something like an assembler. So lisp or assembler? If you want to write modern OS, then you know the answer. The Freud, Jung, Lacan theory is related to psychothe…

Sorry, but all those people he helped to blame themselves for being uncurable, those are something to glance over, right?

Oh, you are a paranoid schizophrenic. Well, im not going to admit defeat and helplessness- i got a reputation to run here- no Sir, you are eternally afraid for having a shorter wiener then your father. This is genius, yes, but of the marketing kind.

Re: The concept of schizophrenia is dying

#52

Post by ivkustov » Tue, Oct 31, 2017, 10:24 AM UTC

nradov wrote: post #48

ivkustov wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We actually shouldn't. The psychoanalysis is contempted and forgotten however psychoanalysis is something like a computer language, the language of human inner world. Some kind of lisp with probably terrible interpreter. The modern neuroscience is of course something like an assembler. So lisp or assembler? If you want to write modern OS, then you know the answer. The Freud, Jung, Lacan theory is related to psychothe…

If a man who was wrong about almost everything can be considered a genius then the word "genius" has lost all meaning.

I don't know how he was 'wrong about almost everything'? I just searched the article with the same name.

Penis envy? Well, I saw myself and read myself about women who desired to castrate their brothers for example because they attributed their envy and jealousy of parental attention to them.

Oedipus issues? Seriously? I believe every other mother or father out there in emotionally incestous relationships with their kids.

Id, ego, superego? It's a model of consciousness, pretty primitive, but still useful. You basically split everything into 3 buckets - e.g. compulsive lust, fetishism goes to id, rational thinking to ego, overresponsibility to superego.

Oral, anal, phallic, etc. stages of development? There were much more better theories by Theodore Lidz and Erickson.

Re: The concept of schizophrenia is dying

#53

Post by toddkazakov » Tue, Oct 31, 2017, 10:26 AM UTC

panacea wrote: post #47

mattmanser wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a load of crap. My home town was in the middle of nowhere and a port. A lot of people I know experimented. Like 50 people in the periphery of friends etc. And hundreds of people in the years above and below. Never heard of a single one that had problems. 50%? You're ignorant and alarmist.

My brother got heavily into weed at a young age (15-16). He developed strong schizophrenia. Was medicated which helped him, but went off the meds, left his wife, and died falling off a train that he was graffiting.

Or it was the schizophrenia that made him heavily addicted to weed?

Re: The concept of schizophrenia is dying

#54

Post by manmal » Tue, Oct 31, 2017, 10:28 AM UTC

ivkustov wrote: post #46

Pica_soO wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Freud is dead. Dead and gone. We moved on. Really, i know he founded the field and made for a nice soap opera gossip generator when discussing other peoples problems sources (generating alot of unnecessary drama, to people who already had drama, like having the genes for schizophrenia in the family)- so please could we stop mentioning him, when discussing modern neurology. Its like a tribe on a pacific island had dis…

We actually shouldn't. The psychoanalysis is contempted and forgotten however psychoanalysis is something like a computer language, the language of human inner world. Some kind of lisp with probably terrible interpreter. The modern neuroscience is of course something like an assembler. So lisp or assembler? If you want to write modern OS, then you know the answer. The Freud, Jung, Lacan theory is related to psychothe…

I would not call him genius. Alfred Adler perhaps was.

Freud was a misogyn and a drug addict, and he proposed a lot of theories that leave modern people scratching their heads. Eg he attributed almost all mental problems to sexuality, coined the ridiculous Oedipus complex, and once called girls „strange little beings without a penis“. Sure, the field was at the very beginning, but why did he always have to bring penises into play?

He happened to found the first thought school for explaining mental illnesses, but most of his ideas have since been accepted to be wrong or way too crude.

Re: The concept of schizophrenia is dying

#55

Post by RhysU » Tue, Oct 31, 2017, 10:38 AM UTC

pizza wrote: post #50

nradov wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a man who was wrong about almost everything can be considered a genius then the word "genius" has lost all meaning.

Would you consider Democritus a genius? Or Zeno?

Everytime I reflect on Zeno, I get halfway closer.

Re: The concept of schizophrenia is dying

#56

Post by stephengillie » Tue, Oct 31, 2017, 10:40 AM UTC

RHSman2 wrote: post #15

I’d suggest that not taking a drug (weed/lsd/mushrooms) that alter ones perceptions of our very existence is a good way of staying mentally sound. If you take ten 16 yr olds, allow them to experiment, 1-2 will drop off the world, 2-3 will have major, life changing changes to the way they view life (border line changes in said spectrum) and the rest handle it fine although with a significant change in lifestyle. As so…

Could you be more descriptive about the "close call" you had "with the boundaries of perception"? I've been using cannabis daily for over a decade to be a normal person, having found that it removes my anxiety, and allows me to operate as a normal individual in society. When I am not using, I become a terrible anxious mess who can't even talk to clerks in stores.

Also your last sentence seems incomplete - did you intend to complete your thought, or at least use punctuation?

Re: The concept of schizophrenia is dying

#57

Post by Sacho » Tue, Oct 31, 2017, 10:40 AM UTC

panacea wrote: post #47

mattmanser wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a load of crap. My home town was in the middle of nowhere and a port. A lot of people I know experimented. Like 50 people in the periphery of friends etc. And hundreds of people in the years above and below. Never heard of a single one that had problems. 50%? You're ignorant and alarmist.

My brother got heavily into weed at a young age (15-16). He developed strong schizophrenia. Was medicated which helped him, but went off the meds, left his wife, and died falling off a train that he was graffiting.

And you attribute this development to the weed because correlation is causation?

Re: The concept of schizophrenia is dying

#58

Post by azernik » Tue, Oct 31, 2017, 11:03 AM UTC

RHSman2 wrote: post #15

I’d suggest that not taking a drug (weed/lsd/mushrooms) that alter ones perceptions of our very existence is a good way of staying mentally sound. If you take ten 16 yr olds, allow them to experiment, 1-2 will drop off the world, 2-3 will have major, life changing changes to the way they view life (border line changes in said spectrum) and the rest handle it fine although with a significant change in lifestyle. As so…

Psychedelics (LSD and mushrooms) are VERY different in their effects than weed. Have tried both categories.

Re: The concept of schizophrenia is dying

#59

Post by cmrdporcupine » Tue, Oct 31, 2017, 11:10 AM UTC

stephengillie wrote: post #56

RHSman2 wrote: post #15

I’d suggest that not taking a drug (weed/lsd/mushrooms) that alter ones perceptions of our very existence is a good way of staying mentally sound. If you take ten 16 yr olds, allow them to experiment, 1-2 will drop off the world, 2-3 will have major, life changing changes to the way they view life (border line changes in said spectrum) and the rest handle it fine although with a significant change in lifestyle. As so…

Could you be more descriptive about the "close call" you had "with the boundaries of perception"? I've been using cannabis daily for over a decade to be a normal person, having found that it removes my anxiety, and allows me to operate as a normal individual in society. When I am not using, I become a terrible anxious mess who can't even talk to clerks in stores. Also your last sentence seems incomplete - did you int…

The problem with cannabis is its extreme variance of effects. Some people like yourself seem to have very positive effects. Myself, I've consumed a whole wack of different drugs including the usual psychedelics plus various dissociatives over the years and cannabis is easily the most unpleasant in its effects on me.

Paranoia, very unpleasant thoughts and paranoia, sad feeling, accentuated body pain (I have chronic back/hip pain), headaches, anxiety. It's basically the opposite of what THC advocates seem to describe. And I've consumed quite a bit of it.

Hopefully along with legalization we can see a lot less proselytizing and some more realistic and scientific analysis.

Re: The concept of schizophrenia is dying

#60

Post by stephengillie » Tue, Oct 31, 2017, 11:19 AM UTC

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #59

stephengillie wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you be more descriptive about the "close call" you had "with the boundaries of perception"? I've been using cannabis daily for over a decade to be a normal person, having found that it removes my anxiety, and allows me to operate as a normal individual in society. When I am not using, I become a terrible anxious mess who can't even talk to clerks in stores. Also your last sentence seems incomplete - did you int…

The problem with cannabis is its extreme variance of effects. Some people like yourself seem to have very positive effects. Myself, I've consumed a whole wack of different drugs including the usual psychedelics plus various dissociatives over the years and cannabis is easily the most unpleasant in its effects on me. Paranoia, very unpleasant thoughts and paranoia, sad feeling, accentuated body pain (I have chronic ba…

Which terpenes are in the plant can have a subtle but powerful impact. And THC can leverage terpenes in other foods too. Some are very calming.

And then there's the non-intoxicating CBD parts, that are becoming popular for those who want the relaxation, but not the head high.

Alcohol has a very broad scope as well, ranging from toxic cleaners, to light dessert wines, to tripel beers and "four loco" drinks. It's very easy to have a bad trip, or a fun night turn deadly.