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Journalists decry Facebook experiment's impact on democracy

theguardian.com

91–100 of 144 posts

Re: Journalists decry Facebook experiment's impact on democracy

#91
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish that more people on the left would finance blatantly partisan outfits as efficiently as the right does. WSJ's opinion pieces (and some of their reporting too, to be honest) channel the Heritage Foundation way too much for my tastes. The opinion pieces' use of fancy words tend to obscure the fact that it's filled with junk economics that only very few people actually believe in. Then you have all these people o…

Agreed that much of the WSJ's opinion pieces are basically trash wrapped in tinfoil. Also agreed that their front page articles have a noticeable fiscal conservative lean. I'll still support them as my news source where I don't have to see vitriolic, polarizing headlines.

Yeah they have super interesting reporting, especially the business reports. Went on a bit of a rant but was subscribed for a long while.

I'd like to say I cancelled out of principle but really it was more that I couldn't find time to read it anymore

Re: Journalists decry Facebook experiment's impact on democracy

#92
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you on everything except for the part about "Medium is already kinda this". Medium has also made the same mistake of introducing bias even though they claim to want to become a platform. A lot of people see Medium as a place where a bunch of self-important people, wannabe activists, growth hackers, social justice warriors live. You can see that by the type of posts they promote on their main page as well…

I don't really want an unbiased platform. I want a news source that accepts the postulates I accept. I don't want to read an interview with the Google Manifesto guy. I do want to read more things about labor issues, without the habitual "some people think that unions are actually bad!" stuff. I don't need the both sides fallacy, especially given the current state of politics. You wouldn't want to read a defense of ho…

> I don't really want an unbiased platform. I want a news source that accepts the postulates I accept.

And this is why we can't hve nice things. The argument here is that we generally don't want an echo chamber focused on one family of postulates and that by wishing for one, the end effect is the depreciation in social value of information sources.

Think of it like genetics/evolution. You want a broad gene/information pool rather than an intellectually inbred circle-jerking cesspool circling the drain of attention at the expense of knowledge and education.

Re: Journalists decry Facebook experiment's impact on democracy

#93
post #74
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you construct a community resource, you have a responsibility to the community. This transcends business interest, which is illegitimate and immoral. If you want to be a part of my life you need to be responsible.

As things stand, Facebook has no responsibility beyond those required by law and market. This is not an endorsement of anything, but a reminder of the reality.

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Re: Journalists decry Facebook experiment's impact on democracy

#94
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if you complain about low internet speed pick up a showel and start digging that fiber. I don't see a reason why cable companies need to cater your need for Netflix.

Was Facebook granted a government-sanctioned monopoly like Comcast was?

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Re: Journalists decry Facebook experiment's impact on democracy

#95
post #34

> The experiment, which began 19 October and is still ongoing, involves limiting the core element of Facebook’s social network to only personal posts and paid adverts. This is the Orwellian outcry? I'm much more concerned about the idea of everyone getting their news (especially passively) from Facebook and making Facebook some sort of "social network" instead.

The Orwellian part is that they rolled it out in Guatemala, where: > Soy502 is a new site in an unstable democracy where journalists and civil society groups already face an uphill battle to be heard. “We currently have a smear campaign that is targeting journalists, which is really vicious, fuelled by interest groups who are against the anti-corruption drive in our country,” she says. “We are regarded in the region…

If I understand the problem correctly (I'm not a Facebook user) their articles, which were being stuffed into users' feed, now require one more click from the user to be seen. And if their audience don't do that click now, they overestimate importance of their work.

Re: Journalists decry Facebook experiment's impact on democracy

#96
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you on everything except for the part about "Medium is already kinda this". Medium has also made the same mistake of introducing bias even though they claim to want to become a platform. A lot of people see Medium as a place where a bunch of self-important people, wannabe activists, growth hackers, social justice warriors live. You can see that by the type of posts they promote on their main page as well…

I don't really want an unbiased platform. I want a news source that accepts the postulates I accept. I don't want to read an interview with the Google Manifesto guy. I do want to read more things about labor issues, without the habitual "some people think that unions are actually bad!" stuff. I don't need the both sides fallacy, especially given the current state of politics. You wouldn't want to read a defense of ho…

No, in fact I do want to read an interview with the Google Manifesto guy.

I totally understand why you want to filter those out from your life, and I also want to filter a lot of things out of my life too. But that's our problem, not the media's.

I think the job of journalism is to give you what needs to be heard instead of what you want to hear. Being unbiased is not easy so I think at least media needs to provide as many sides of the story as possible so that each value judgment cancels out and the consumer can make the right decision based on complete set of information.

The problem with the current mainstream media is that every one of them has become "Buzzfeed"ified, which means they try very hard to optimize content AND their interpretation to cater to their existing audience. This is why you see acceleration in polarization. And this is why you see so many people sharing articles talking shit about Hilary Clinton or Donald Trump. They just want to be reinforced with content AND value judgment of what they want to believe in.

This is human nature and we as consumers cannot easily change to act rationally because we have other better things to do in our lives than focusing every waking hour of our lives into useless political debate or whatever that's being marketed through the media. This is why I think this is journalism's job.

I no longer can trust any one side coverage of a single story so have started following multiple sources just so i can make a sane judgment on anything that's happening around me. You should try that too, it's amazing how almost always different parties write extremely different interpretation of the same objective static fact that doesn't need to be sensationalized.

Maybe many people may want to live in the matrix and just believe what they want to believe, but personally I do want to know exactly what I'm being fed and don't want to brainwashed with propaganda.

I realize this is something that's not easily possible within the traditional centralized organizational structure (because they have to make money) which is why I think the new decentralized trust-less technologies may be able to help.

Re: Journalists decry Facebook experiment's impact on democracy

#97

This tells more about the journalists than Facebook. Facebook has always been the same. It's journalists who sold their soul so that they can make money. Furthermore, it's funny hearing this hypocrisy coming from journalists, since they are the ones who are throwing away their "journalistic integrity" to make money. It's impossible to come across a mainstream publication with unbiased point of view nowadays. They hav…

> This tells more about the journalists than Facebook. Facebook has always been the same. It's journalists who sold their soul so that they can make money.

I'm not sure what your whole screed about journaists has to do with the decision at hand. It's just a fact that one of the largest online audiences is on Facebook and that newspapers & magazines have to be present on that platform to get views. They can't really get around posting to Fb, can they? If Fb suddenly cuts a major source of revenue for a whole industry without any discussion, if that is Fb's power, then this is really unhealthy for our market economy and our ideas of democracy

Re: Journalists decry Facebook experiment's impact on democracy

#98
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if you complain about low internet speed pick up a showel and start digging that fiber. I don't see a reason why cable companies need to cater your need for Netflix.

Was Facebook granted a government-sanctioned monopoly like Comcast was?

Does it matter where the monopoly came from? Honest question, I’m genuinely unsure myself

Re: Journalists decry Facebook experiment's impact on democracy

#100

This tells more about the journalists than Facebook. Facebook has always been the same. It's journalists who sold their soul so that they can make money. Furthermore, it's funny hearing this hypocrisy coming from journalists, since they are the ones who are throwing away their "journalistic integrity" to make money. It's impossible to come across a mainstream publication with unbiased point of view nowadays. They hav…

> This tells more about the journalists than Facebook. Facebook has always been the same. It's journalists who sold their soul so that they can make money. I'm not sure what your whole screed about journaists has to do with the decision at hand. It's just a fact that one of the largest online audiences is on Facebook and that newspapers & magazines have to be present on that platform to get views. They can't really g…

The Web is an open platform. Facebook is not some big brother who has power to censor anything. People can type https://nytimes.com to go directly go to the new york times if they want.

From Facebook's point of view, these media sites are nothing more than parasites that try to write sensational articles to mislead the public and get people to fight online.

Users become unhappy because they get into unnecessary arguments with their friends and family about things that ultimately have no right or wrong answer (such as politics), and end up blaming Facebook for facilitating it.

Facebook is unhappy because their users are unhappy.

It's only these short-sighted media companies that "benefit" off of the traffic (but in the long term not so much).

By cutting this party out of the equation, users are happier. Facebook is happier.

And I would say it's a good thing even for the media because essentially they are being cut off of access to the race to the bottom that's killing them. One of the reasons why these publications had to write sensationalism articles and disseminate them onto Facebook was because if they didn't, their competition would.

Now that they are cut off, they are forced to compete in healthier ways. It's kind of hilarious because it's like these self-important media companies are some kids trying to get their hands on a cookie jar and fighting, and one day their mom (Facebook) takes it all away so nobody gets the cookie jar. The kids cry and bitch about it saying it's not fair. But soon something great happens. kids no longer fight because there's nothing to fight over, but go out to earn their own cookie in their own creative ways. They may even share the ones they earned with one another if they're generous.

Anyway this has nothing to do with democracy, they're just doing the thing they've become good at doing--spinning news to fit their interest--like kids crying and complaining about how it's not fair that the free cookie jar is gone.

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