Live data from Hacker News

Journalists decry Facebook experiment's impact on democracy

theguardian.com

61–70 of 144 posts

Re: Journalists decry Facebook experiment's impact on democracy

#61

This reads pretty similar to the cries that come out whenever Google updates their search algorithm. It's as if people believe there is some code big internet companies must live by, that ensures they never change. These companies live by the code of the market - they will happily make changes that make them more profitable. It does not make them evil if a small customer gets caught in the crosshairs - it just means…

And if you complain about low internet speed pick up a showel and start digging that fiber. I don't see a reason why cable companies need to cater your need for Netflix.

Re: Journalists decry Facebook experiment's impact on democracy

#62

Why don’t these publishers band together and launch their own news aggregator if they think that’s something people want? I don’t see Facebook owing them a platform here and from a personal perspective politics can’t be removed from my _social_ feed fast enough.

Journalists creating a new service wouldn't have an impact on whether your feed has politics. Only Facebook and your Facebook friends can influence that.

Re: Journalists decry Facebook experiment's impact on democracy

#63
Facebook has gotten worse and worse to use. I’m still surprised it hasn’t gone the way of MySpace. Most of my friends don’t post nearly as much. I’m sure that’s partly getting older, but it also just didn’t seem fun anymore. Reading about all the the scummy stuff Facebook has done doesn’t thrill me either.

Re: Journalists decry Facebook experiment's impact on democracy

#64
In David Kirkpatrick's book The Facebook Effect, which was basically the positive counterpart book at the time to Ben Mezrich's The Accidental Billionaires: The Founding of Facebook, Kirkpatrick talks on the first few pages how Facebook's viral and collaborative social network allowed for protests and eventually political revolutions to be organized in various countries. He says that one guy was so thankful for Facebook that he named his own child with the name Facebook.

If Facebook back then was lauded for enabling online communication in a way that wasn't possible before that led to political revolution for certain nations, it is ironic that these journalists are complaining about Facebook killing their click count by taking their official pages out of the mainstream feed. Taking their official pages out of the mainstream feed perhaps brings Facebook closer back to the Facebook that Kirkpatrick wrote about. This leads me to wonder whether the journalists are worried about political freedoms or really their income while raising the banner of political freedoms. The fact of the matter is that if Facebook indiscriminately removes these pages from the mainstream feed, they'll remove "good" pages, but they'll also remove "bad" pages (and let's not even get into which news media are "good" and which are "bad").

Today, we can see that Facebook is like any other technological product: it is amoral and can be used for "good" and "bad". Even though Zuckerberg now concedes that Facebook may have had a part to play in Trump's election, an idea he at first thought was nonsense, and even though he now makes overtures of wanting to help ensure elections around the world are fair (where a private American organization may or may not even be the right party to do this), Zuckerberg in fact does not have much ability to control what happens on his network. At a fundamental level, Facebook is about online social activity. Even if he manages to successfully ban politically manipulative ads (and which ads aren't?), bans fake accounts with amazing accuracy, and gets reviewed by government committees for political ads the way television and radio get reviewed, Facebook cannot survive without the lifeblood of its members engaging in online social activity. It would not be easy to ban all the "bad" people if there are a lot of "bad" people who still "deserve" their freedom of political speech. So there will likely always be an attack surface for some smart strategist to take advantage of Facebook and spread ideas maliciously and manipulatively.

Pandora's Box has been opened, and it's not going to get closed again. And if people mute those they don't like, then all it does is increase individual echo chambers, which in turn then increase political polarization.

If technology is amoral and can be used for both good and bad, depending on the user, we should have seen this future coming from a mile away. But we didn't, I certainly didn't. It's funny how all the lessons from 1984, Brave New World, and all the other classics have come true in so many ways. Not sure if there was a book that warned about this type of future discussed in these comment threads, but anyway. I should have seen it coming and not sure why I didn't. So we'll live in an era where information and misinformation seem to become one.

Re: Journalists decry Facebook experiment's impact on democracy

#65

I think there will be increasing scrutiny over Facebook's ability to wipe their hands while claiming "it's free speech." There's a reason the media were information gatekeepers: there's a responsibility to be accurate and unbiased. Facebook's product was manipulated and helped Donald Trump get elected by swaying public opinion. There has to be consequences- sorry, but in my opinion not every voice deserves to be equa…

> Facebook's product was manipulated and helped Donald Trump get elected No the ads in question were almost universally pro-Clinton. You might wish to leave your echo chamber for a while http://theduran.com/facebook-fail-russian-ads-were-actually-... http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-09-25/leaked-descriptions... https://www.thedailybeast.com/russian-propaganda-pushed-pro-... A handful of them were pro-Sanders and St…

Speaking of echo chambers, your first source is an article about your second source. None of them support your conclusion that the ads were "universally pro-Clinton."

Re: Journalists decry Facebook experiment's impact on democracy

#66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> unfriend or mute those people... It's funny how these comments illustrate how different people use Facebook for different things. I for one mute people who post too much personal stuff, so I rather primarily use fb for discussing politics.

Indeed. For me it’s nice to catch up on the truly personal moments my friends are having. Politics has invaded every aspect of life (professional, media saturation, Internet discussion...) so it’s nice to be able to tailor FB enough to not see it there.

For me, Facebook is just messenger - a fancy Rolodex. A way to get in touch with period you don't talk to often enough to always have their updated contract information. Get caught up and move the conversation elsewhere as soon as I can — be it WhatsApp or signal.

I can't trust the feed to show me everything in a reverse chronological order so it is worthless to me.

In hindsight, I must agree that WhatsApp was a good buy and probably a good thing for Facebook to own.

Re: Journalists decry Facebook experiment's impact on democracy

#67

Why don’t these publishers band together and launch their own news aggregator if they think that’s something people want? I don’t see Facebook owing them a platform here and from a personal perspective politics can’t be removed from my _social_ feed fast enough.

If you construct a community resource, you have a responsibility to the community. This transcends business interest, which is illegitimate and immoral. If you want to be a part of my life you need to be responsible.

Re: Journalists decry Facebook experiment's impact on democracy

#68
post #61

This reads pretty similar to the cries that come out whenever Google updates their search algorithm. It's as if people believe there is some code big internet companies must live by, that ensures they never change. These companies live by the code of the market - they will happily make changes that make them more profitable. It does not make them evil if a small customer gets caught in the crosshairs - it just means…

And if you complain about low internet speed pick up a showel and start digging that fiber. I don't see a reason why cable companies need to cater your need for Netflix.

Was Facebook granted a government-sanctioned monopoly like Comcast was?

Re: Journalists decry Facebook experiment's impact on democracy

#69
This tells more about the journalists than Facebook. Facebook has always been the same. It's journalists who sold their soul so that they can make money.

Furthermore, it's funny hearing this hypocrisy coming from journalists, since they are the ones who are throwing away their "journalistic integrity" to make money. It's impossible to come across a mainstream publication with unbiased point of view nowadays.

They have to write polarizing articles to gain more eyeballs since otherwise no one will have enough attention to read their articles. They should realize there's a bigger opportunity here but instead all they're focused on is short therm revenue and complaining about how Facebook (who focuses obsessively on long term value) is being unfair.

Re: Journalists decry Facebook experiment's impact on democracy

#70
post #67

Why don’t these publishers band together and launch their own news aggregator if they think that’s something people want? I don’t see Facebook owing them a platform here and from a personal perspective politics can’t be removed from my _social_ feed fast enough.

If you construct a community resource, you have a responsibility to the community. This transcends business interest, which is illegitimate and immoral. If you want to be a part of my life you need to be responsible.

[deleted]
Post reply on HN