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How to Read the JFK Assassination Files

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Re: How to Read the JFK Assassination Files

#131

Post by zeveb »

kelukelugames wrote: post #48
indubitable wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would be surprised if the releases containing anything especially new, but the government most certainly maintains incriminating information on themselves. For instance we now know that the FBI discovered compromising information on MLK and tried to black mail him into suicide. [1] They also discovered his infidelity through surveillance and contacted his wife again trying to damage his character. This was all well…

If King's affairs are real then why are they not more widely known? I haven't seen any conclusive evidence other than Hoover's letter.

Because we like to imagine that our heroes are perfect. Martin Luther King, Jr. was an heroic defender of civil rights for blacks; he also cheated on his wife & plagiarised. His misdeeds don't make his deeds any less great, but … we don't like to think about them.

Re: How to Read the JFK Assassination Files

#132

Post by zeveb »

ionised wrote: post #74
2845197541 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Theories don't all implicate the US government. There are notions of Russian/Cuban involvement, for example.

Wasn't that the theory put forward by the US government? That Oswald was a communist agent?

No, the theory put forward by the U.S. government was that he was a lone actor (with Communist sympathies).

Had we believed that an agent of a foreign state had assassinated our head of state, we'd have been obliged to go to war.

Re: How to Read the JFK Assassination Files

#133

Post by mmjaa »

jwdunne wrote: post #34
smnrchrds wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On a similar note, most Iranians blame the British, who were occupying the country at the time, for the Persian famine of 1917–1919. It is by some accounts estimated that up to half the population died in the famine, while the British were using the agricultural output for their war efforts and enacting policies that made the situation worse. Its portrayal in Iran is like a more aggravated version of the Irish famine…

This isn't a stretch to believe. I'm British too. We did something similar with India. We also allowed the Irish famine to happen too. History does say we were not a very kind empire - causing famine was not beyond us.

The point is, you (your nation state) are still doing it.

Re: How to Read the JFK Assassination Files

#134

Post by hutzlibu »

kbart wrote: post #85
hutzlibu wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hm ... Britain, France, Germany, Spain, Portugal, Belgium, Dutch, Austria, Russia ... just come to my mind, when I think of european empires. So what "most other nations" are left, except for some easterns states?

There are 50 sovereign countries in Europe[0], you named 9, so that just illustrates my point. And that doesn't even include nations that have no independence, often taken away during reigning of neighboring empire. 0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe

Those I named, had by far the majority of the european people in them. And what is your point linking to current european states, when were speaking of historic europe?

And that not all the people them were happy patriots, sure - thats common in empires. (and I don't like empires btw.) But the ordinary person was pretty much pro empire at that time. And that meant also conquering and ruling other nations and people.

Re: How to Read the JFK Assassination Files

#135

Post by boomboomsubban »

dontlikeitupem wrote: post #125
boomboomsubban wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The West was still full of savage practices when suttee was outlawed, and the millions killed by colonialism outweigh the lives saved by this "education."

In these countries, as the population trends towards the billions, we will see the ongoing benefits of education.

If you're talking that kind of time frame, education did not require colonialism.

Re: How to Read the JFK Assassination Files

#136

Post by stevewillows »

blowski wrote: post #66
ekianjo wrote: post #65

> The single bullet theory, while almost certainly true, was ridiculed in the film, as was Specter, by name. What about the Zapruder film?

What about it? Genuine question, I don’t know what you mean.

It's basically the best footage. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iU83R7rpXQY (as expected, its gory)

Frame 225 has JFK's throat wound, with the headshot at 313.

You've most likely seen this footage many times over the years.

Re: How to Read the JFK Assassination Files

#137

Post by wallace_f »

hiram112 wrote: post #110
notzorbo3 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My history texts taught me to be once quite strongly of the belief that the atomic bombings of Japan were necessary, and even saved lives So that's where that attitude / excuse comes from whenever I talk to americans about the bombings of Japan?! Is that literally taught in history classes? It always seemed to me like a statement made by an indoctrinated mind. It was nuclear bombs used on civilians in two densely p…

The typical narrative is that millions of American and Japanese lives would have been lost fighting for the home islands. The Japanese were pretty intent on dying for the cause if their leadership chose to do so. The bit left out in most history books is the fact that the atomic bomb was used not to destroy Japanese cities but instead to demonstrate to the Soviets, who by an earlier treaty, had declared war on Japan…

This is true. What's more is that Hirohito, when asked about terms of surrender, said that he would

That said, "there was no reason to use that awful thing" as Eisenhower said. Truman was "itching to use the bomb" to deter the Soviets in Europe and Asia.

There wasn't any reason for a land invasion and military leaders in the US echoed this, and they were already defeated and going through conditions of surrender. Hirohito was a really bad guy, and stubbornly refused any terms that would have him step down. Miscommunication then led to the bomb drop, which few know. If you want to know more about this Google the 'Mokusatsu incident.'

Then in a massive miscarriage lf justice, Hirohito remained royalty and Tojo was martyred as "the bad guy."

Re: How to Read the JFK Assassination Files

#138

Post by jwdunne »

tadhgf wrote: post #107
jwdunne wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't a stretch to believe. I'm British too. We did something similar with India. We also allowed the Irish famine to happen too. History does say we were not a very kind empire - causing famine was not beyond us.

I would say the British did more than just allow the famine to happen. Exporting grain from Ireland during the famine caused the deaths of thousands. http://ighm.org/exports-in-famine-times/

I couldn't remember the specifics but I was going to say something a bit more charged i.e directly made it worse. I wasn't sure if it was a similar deal to the Indian famine but clearly was.

Re: How to Read the JFK Assassination Files

#139

Post by jwdunne »

satya71 wrote: post #36
jwdunne wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't a stretch to believe. I'm British too. We did something similar with India. We also allowed the Irish famine to happen too. History does say we were not a very kind empire - causing famine was not beyond us.

I was under the impression that British schools still teach that colonies actually benefited from British occupation. Looks like you went out of the way to learn the reality. Kudos!

That wasn't my experience, though we didn't cover the empire specifically. In fact, each term or so was based on a theme that covered a period e.g Tudors, Victorians, ancient Egypt, ancient Rome.

I also went to a Catholic faith school so I think there was already good reason to be honest with history. England was not very kind to Catholics either - apparently a BBC show demonstrates this quite well.

My learnings about the empire have been through personal curiosity. At first, the whole "largest empire in history" was a curiosity. The more I learned, however, the more disgusted I became.

Re: How to Read the JFK Assassination Files

#140

Post by tzakrajs »

dragontamer wrote: post #117
tzakrajs wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also there were documented hotspots that were in excess of steel melting temperature. This was due to regular office debris being burnt quickly, thanks to the jet fuel that had catalyzed it when it sprayed out into the center and floors above and below the crash site. I read about this in the excellent 9/11 debunk series by Popular Mechanics.

Conspiracy theorists will come up with anything to prove themselves correct. For example: > Also there were documented hotspots that were in excess of steel melting temperature. This will be evidence for the Thermite that the "Big Bad Government" planted in the towers to make it an inside job. -------- When talking to a conspiracy theorist, do NOT challenge them to a facts battle. You take their facts that they tell…

I get it now, I will practice that more. But won't you be breadthening the argument by saying the steel was weakened and not melted and then they will ask about how beads of steel were reportedly seen or recorded?
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