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Reddit Bans Nazi Groups and Others in Crackdown on Violent Content

nytimes.com

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Re: Reddit Bans Nazi Groups and Others in Crackdown on Violent Content

#211

Post by pjc50 »

Grue3 wrote: post #208
pjc50 wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nobody who isn't an ISIS member has ever been called an ISIS member. Pause for a moment to consider how dumb such an easily falsifiable statement is before posting it to HN.

Do you post this kind of comment for any hyperbolic statement, or only this one in particular? Because you can do it all day long. I'm pretty sure you understood perfectly well what my point is.

Hyperbolic statements about supporting ISIS have been thrown around a lot and used to support things like the "muslim ban" on immigration. There's a serious problem with people being wrongly accused of supporting terrorism. With actual consequences for the wrongly accused.

What was your point anyway?

Re: Reddit Bans Nazi Groups and Others in Crackdown on Violent Content

#212

Post by breakingcups »

thraxil wrote: post #195
Grue3 wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll tell you why. Nobody who isn't an ISIS member has ever been called an ISIS member. However the favorite tactic of American left lately has been calling anyone who they disagree with a Nazi. For example most people are probably politically to the right to the likes of Anthony Fantano or Laci Green. And yet both of them have been unironically branded Nazis, as a quick Twitter search will confirm. So yeah, if you h…

> I'll tell you why. Nobody who isn't an ISIS member has ever been called an ISIS member. I do seem to recall a certain presidential candidate calling Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama founders of ISIS... Painting all Muslim or even brown people as ISIS or terrorists is a pretty common rhetorical tactic of the right.

I still can't fathom the gravity of your first sentence. What it seems to imply about the majority of voting Americans and humanity in general. What a mess.

Re: Reddit Bans Nazi Groups and Others in Crackdown on Violent Content

#213

Post by FrankenTan »

KGIII wrote: post #6

It's really, really not easy to stand up for the rights of Nazis. If you're a Nazi, you can use voat.co as they are very free speech oriented. You don't have to be a Nazi to participate, but it's a good idea to have a thick skin if you do go there. I go there and talk to the White Nationalists. They are pretty much Nazis. They know I'm not white and that I don't agree with them. They don't scare me. They are scared a…

Being a Nazi isnt a mental illness. Sane people were nazis. Last time Nazis were in power they, in fact, murder quite a lot of mentally ill people.

Nazis also dont need to be in power to kill people. Nazis already kill people. Being organized and in sufficent numbers is enough. Being in power mainly means they have less resistance and more ability to do so.

Re: Reddit Bans Nazi Groups and Others in Crackdown on Violent Content

#214

Post by notyourday »

sighwhatnow wrote: post #72
KGIII wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd argue they have no moral obligation to do any such thing. However, they should probably make a pretty clear warning sign. I fear we will digress too far. In short, I'm very pro freedom of expression. I'm glad voat exists, for example. The people there are often horrible, that is true. But, they still deserve to express themselves freely.

> But, they still deserve to express themselves freely. Um, why. What makes you think this. If someone's opinions are stupid and abhorrent, why should they not experience an immediate and firm response, in ban-hammer form. Why do you want to give ignorant idiots a platform to spread their ignorant idiocy to other ignorant idiots (and e.g. provoke easily influenced mentally ill idiots who might want to drive cars into…

> Why do you want to give ignorant idiots a platform to spread their ignorant idiocy to other ignorant idiots (and e.g. provoke easily influenced mentally ill idiots who might want to drive cars into crowds).

Because otherwise you would be shocked to wake up and realize that it is your views that are in a bubble and not theirs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzJfMsbe7Ks

Edit: It must be fun downvoting reality. Here: blast from the past - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/23/hillary-clinton-s...

Those who did not pay attention to the unpalatable media had conniptions on TV when Podesta came out.

Re: Reddit Bans Nazi Groups and Others in Crackdown on Violent Content

#215

Post by zimpenfish »

edanm wrote: post #201
sighwhatnow wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But, they still deserve to express themselves freely. Um, why. What makes you think this. If someone's opinions are stupid and abhorrent, why should they not experience an immediate and firm response, in ban-hammer form. Why do you want to give ignorant idiots a platform to spread their ignorant idiocy to other ignorant idiots (and e.g. provoke easily influenced mentally ill idiots who might want to drive cars into…

"Why do you want to give ignorant idiots a platform to spread their ignorant idiocy to other ignorant idiots" Because the only way I can guarantee that "my side" can say whatever it wants, is to guarantee that all sides can say whatever they want. We have, over many millennia reached a point where tolerance is considered a pretty high virtue - we believe that even if we don't agree with someone, we can live and work…

> guarantee that all sides can say whatever they want

The thing is - the Nazis can say whatever they want. No-one is obliged to give them a platform to do that. Which means you actually want to modify it to

> guarantee that all sides can say whatever they want [and be heard]

Which is an entirely different kettle of fish and something we don't have currently (and never will, really, whilst there is an imbalance in money and power.)

Re: Reddit Bans Nazi Groups and Others in Crackdown on Violent Content

#216

Post by notyourday »

amigoingtodie wrote: post #64
aaron-lebo wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The effect your are talking about seems legit. The flip side about that is if you force these groups out of the public and then into the shadows, that's only proving the paranoia. Does that radicalize things even more? The same kind of viewpoints existed in the mid 90s, underground, and that lead to OKC which was one of the worst terrorist incidents in US history. Is it better or worse that this is happening in publi…

It is worse. Before it took a bit of effort to work in the shadows, but technology has facilitated a disproportionatly loud 'voice' with little effort. It would be considered crazy to even have this conversation a decade ago.

That's because a decade ago we pretended that it did not exist by trying to muzzle them. In the absence of the avenues for us to see those nutcases the so called "educated population" believed it was a totally fringe group as no traces of them were visible in the liberal coastal towns not because 10% of their neighbors were not barbarians but because NYT acted as a gate keeper preventing barbarians at the gate from entering. So the population did not realize there were barbarians at the gate. 10 years later, NYT failed as a gatekeeper and there they were, pillaging.

Now instead of saying "Ok, there are barbarians here, we should deal with it reality" we say "Hey, we have a new set of gatekeepers - put on these glasses and you won't see the barbarians raping and pillaging"

Re: Reddit Bans Nazi Groups and Others in Crackdown on Violent Content

#217

Post by notyourday »

FrankenTan wrote: post #213
KGIII wrote: post #6

It's really, really not easy to stand up for the rights of Nazis. If you're a Nazi, you can use voat.co as they are very free speech oriented. You don't have to be a Nazi to participate, but it's a good idea to have a thick skin if you do go there. I go there and talk to the White Nationalists. They are pretty much Nazis. They know I'm not white and that I don't agree with them. They don't scare me. They are scared a…

Being a Nazi isnt a mental illness. Sane people were nazis. Last time Nazis were in power they, in fact, murder quite a lot of mentally ill people. Nazis also dont need to be in power to kill people. Nazis already kill people. Being organized and in sufficent numbers is enough. Being in power mainly means they have less resistance and more ability to do so.

What's your opinion of people wearing Che T-shirts?

Re: Reddit Bans Nazi Groups and Others in Crackdown on Violent Content

#218

Post by KozmoNau7 »

jquery wrote: post #128
rodgerd wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A loud group of HN users are, apparently, very very sympathetic to the wellbeing of violent racists.

I haven't seen any sympathy for Antifa on HN.

"But but but Antifa are the real facists/racists"

Give me a break.

Re: Reddit Bans Nazi Groups and Others in Crackdown on Violent Content

#219

Post by KozmoNau7 »

JCharante wrote: post #205
kstrauser wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who is Antifa prejudiced against? I'm white but I've never felt like they were any danger to me whatsoever.

> Who is Antifa prejudiced against? It seems like Antifa is prejudiced against people with a lighter skin tone. > I'm white but I've never felt like they were any danger to me whatsoever. Because Antifa is a bunch of civilians.

Antifa is prejudiced against fascists, and for good reason.

Re: Reddit Bans Nazi Groups and Others in Crackdown on Violent Content

#220

Post by KozmoNau7 »

heeen2 wrote: post #203
kstrauser wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who is Antifa prejudiced against? I'm white but I've never felt like they were any danger to me whatsoever.

One could argue that if you have nice things (e.g. nice car, upscale shop windows) certain groups that are assumed under the antifa umbrella would not hesitate to set fire to your car as a protest against capitalism and the power gradients it strengthens. Examplary incidents are G20 protests in Germany.

Assumed by who to be under the Antifa umbrella?

It's not like Antifa is a structured group with a command structure. They are by definition anarchists.

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