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Microsoft Has Stopped Manufacturing The Kinect

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Re: Microsoft Has Stopped Manufacturing The Kinect

#141

Post by wildpeaks »

feelin_googley wrote: post #37

Most interesting bit of Kinect history, IMO, omitted by the article: https://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2373107,00.asp

Especially as it was a sharp contrast to the history of the Wiimote, where Nintendo had had the opposite reaction and tried to lock DIY makers out once they realized people were using it for unintended purposes.

I'm glad Microsoft was smarter about this, it enabled a lot of otherwise costly to develop ideas to emerge at the time and the gaming use of the Kinect is almost anecdotal in retrospect.

Re: Microsoft Has Stopped Manufacturing The Kinect

#143

Post by clarkmoody »

ansgri wrote: post #136
cbhl wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wasn't the Kinect technology acquired by Apple? My impression is the top sensor bar in the iPhone X is essentially a miniaturized Kinect, so we should see more Kinect-like applications now that it fits in your pocket.

AFAIR, it was acquired by ASUS. Original Kinect was developed by an Israel company Xtion, which now lives as a trademark of ASUS game accessories: https://www.asus.com/3D-Sensor/All-Series/ The core technology (structured light in iPhone X and Kinect 1, ToF in Kinect 2) is rather straightforward (for a computer vision researcher, that is...), it's hardware (embedded CPU, cheap sensors and lasers) that enabled its mas…

We got tons of use out of the ASUS version of Kinect (Xtion PRO) in my research lab. It worked very well and had a smaller form-factor than Kinect.

Re: Microsoft Has Stopped Manufacturing The Kinect

#144

Post by joshvm »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #40
robotresearcher wrote: post #38

The Kinect was a real boon for robotics research. A depth camera that worked pretty well, with skeleton extraction and directional audio? And the price is what!? My lab still uses a first gen Kinect regularly. Thanks to Jamie Shotton and the team for a sensor that made a difference to an incidental community. https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/video/body-part-rec...

This is actually a reason I am kind of surprised to see Microsoft just shut this down outright. Even as a much more limited run product, Kinect has so many possibilities in robotics and research, and it intersects with the VR/AR developments today.

There is the Asus Xtion which is a knock off Primesense Carmine. Google Tango is basically the same technology, as is Apple's Face ID*. Intel's realsense systems are also similar, but I don't know anyone who actually uses them.

Unfortunately Microsoft missed the chance to buy Primsesense before Apple snapped them up. Still, while the tech is good, the ToF sensor in the Kinect v2 is superior for the (gaming) market and Microsoft own the IP via their Canesta acquisition (they licensed the Kinect patent).

What's more interesting is the boatload of cheap ToF systems that you can now buy. The only problem is they're much more power hungry. The new Kinect is crappy for mobile robotics because its heavy (90% of the sensor head is heatsink) and needs a wall power supply. It's fine for static systems, or beefier mechanics though.

(Face ID is literally a mini-Kinect, since it comes out of Primsense IP.)

Re: Microsoft Has Stopped Manufacturing The Kinect

#145

Post by ansgri »

brutus1213 wrote: post #140
ansgri wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AFAIR, it was acquired by ASUS. Original Kinect was developed by an Israel company Xtion, which now lives as a trademark of ASUS game accessories: https://www.asus.com/3D-Sensor/All-Series/ The core technology (structured light in iPhone X and Kinect 1, ToF in Kinect 2) is rather straightforward (for a computer vision researcher, that is...), it's hardware (embedded CPU, cheap sensors and lasers) that enabled its mas…

How does primesense fit into it? I thought primesense was the company acquired by apple?

Don't know about primesense, I was answering to "Wasn't the Kinect technology acquired by Apple?".

Re: Microsoft Has Stopped Manufacturing The Kinect

#146

Post by WorldMaker »

Qworg wrote: post #117
WorldMaker wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you had a large enough dedicated room (I used most of a basement once, with a lot of setup work to give the Kinect the view of just about the whole room) and the right games (some games were less fiddly if multiple people/gestures were recognized that others [1]; though a lot of the management of it is still taking turns and having patience) it was sort of magic to watch particularly young kids play with the Kinec…

Kinectimals was actually well beyond the standard skeletonization system - I think they rewrote a chunk of the stack to allow for younger kids to use it and have it perform well.

I think it was more similar to how Double Fine's Happy Action Theater / Kinect Party handled the system (I recall they had some great write ups of the compromises they found), which came later than my hazy memories of my young cousins but also fit that young of an audience well. The Kinect provided a spectrum of accuracy. The most accurate skeletonizations required the most trade-offs in number of users and unobstructed views, etc, but the Kinect also provided lots of less accurate data, such as the raw depth sensing, and you didn't have to rely on just one data stream. So you might use the depth sensing alone as your primary tool, and there were enough basic gestures you can easily watch that way (like reaching in to "pet a cat" can be a very clear depth change), and use more accurate gestures and skeleton tracking for cases where you actually need more accurate gestures and/or skeleton tracking. You would use one data source to backup the other rather than only programming to the easiest/most accurate/most in-depth model.

I find Kinect programming retrospectives fascinating. Particularly that fascinating feel that with the Kinect you have so much data at your fingerprints that good Kinect programming is as much figuring out (quickly) which data to ignore as which data to use, but also realizing that you don't have to trust just one source of the data you want a gestalt of it. (...and getting a good gestalt to be performant in real time is certainly a challenge.)

Re: Microsoft Has Stopped Manufacturing The Kinect

#147

Post by Qworg »

ansgri wrote: post #136
cbhl wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wasn't the Kinect technology acquired by Apple? My impression is the top sensor bar in the iPhone X is essentially a miniaturized Kinect, so we should see more Kinect-like applications now that it fits in your pocket.

AFAIR, it was acquired by ASUS. Original Kinect was developed by an Israel company Xtion, which now lives as a trademark of ASUS game accessories: https://www.asus.com/3D-Sensor/All-Series/ The core technology (structured light in iPhone X and Kinect 1, ToF in Kinect 2) is rather straightforward (for a computer vision researcher, that is...), it's hardware (embedded CPU, cheap sensors and lasers) that enabled its mas…

Primesense was the source of the structured light technology in the Kinect v1. They were purchased by Apple.

They produced an ASIC that ran the structured light system, as well as a custom grating to produce a very specific light pattern.

Re: Microsoft Has Stopped Manufacturing The Kinect

#148

Post by TeMPOraL »

derefr wrote: post #131
squarefoot wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"A powerful sensor at a ridiculously cheap cost that you could use to create amazing things, provided of course your imagination wasn't weighed down by the latest dumb tech trend" This. And thanks to software/hardware patents, the technology will die with the product, or remain dormant until the owner will either decide to make something else with it or (not holding my breath) release it under a FOSS license. In the…

There already is something else “like” it: the front-facing camera in the iPhone X. On one hand, you could see this as fooling around with Kinect tech now requiring a $1000 investment in an iPhone. (Or buying a Kinect used; there are still plenty on the market.) On the other hand, you could believe in the inevitability of Shenzhen to take the probably $3 part Apple has designed, stick it into a little housing with a…

While I love Shenzhen's attitude to intellectual property, this is not a solution outside hobby market. I doubt people will dare to release a product in clear violation of Apple's patents (or whoever owns them now).

Re: Microsoft Has Stopped Manufacturing The Kinect

#149

Post by dawnerd »

flanbiscuit wrote: post #109
dawnerd wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking of magic, universal uses Kinect for Harry Potter in Knockturn Alley. Was surprised to see a simple Kinect running it (hard to see but it’s in a box to the left of the skeleton magic wand experience).

this? https://youtu.be/uUE_DaM8ymk?t=19s

Yep, that's the one.

Re: Microsoft Has Stopped Manufacturing The Kinect

#150

Post by donavanm »

Bjorkbat wrote: post #67

This is a shame. I mean, yeah, it was a pretty awkward gaming accessory, but outside the context of gaming people were doing some pretty fun things with it. A powerful sensor at a ridiculously cheap cost that you could use to create amazing things, provided of course your imagination wasn't weighed down by the latest dumb tech trend. That last statement is just as true now as it was when the Kinect originally came ou…

> Amazon and Google are caught up in a dumb contest to see who can produce the best hockey-puck-sized speaker that can add items to your shopping list.

Youre either misrepresenting or woefully misunderstanding this. The echo et al are no more about selling a $50 shopping list speaker than when Amazon/Barnes and Noble/Sony were going at over $50 e-ink readers.

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