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An Open Letter to Patreon

openlettertopatreon.com

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81–90 of 245 posts

Re: An Open Letter to Patreon

#81

Post by throwaway200033 »

drjackyll wrote: post #50
Majestic121 wrote: post #20

I agree with the overall point of shady limitations between porn and adult content leading to discrimination, but this kind of self-victimization : > Not only that, the most vulnerable among us – disproportionately queer, trans, disabled, people of color and those whose first language is not English – are literally scared for our lives. Hurts the whole speech. Is it possible to have this (valid and important) debate…

Agree. As a white straight guy (although English is not my first language), who actually lived through a war in my country, I find this “_literally_ scared for our lives”, disgusting self victimization.

As a soldier myself, I respect what you have done for your country. And as a non-English speaker myself, I would have found it difficult to sympathize with this text a few years ago, having difficulty understanding why the Americans complain so much about everything ;) However the more and more I learn about America the more I have come to sympathize with viewpoints like this after hearing about their everyday problems. Of the pornography artists that use Patreon that I know, a disproportionate amount of them are LGBTQ (I suspect it is a form of escapism), and it no longer surprises me at all that they are worried this will disproportionately harm them with the threat of homelessness. Many of them are young and cannot afford medical treatments for mental diseases (which are increasing in America), and while the difficulty of getting a job is already quite difficult, getting one and keeping it with untreated ADHD is even harder. For these friends, drawing pornography is not only the a way of expressing themselves and their identity but also the only way to avoid staying off the streets.

I might have also said "suck it up, get a job" to my friends a few years ago, but after knowing several of them with ADHD and other problems who cannot afford meds I can no longer say that. The American system is cold and unfeeling and would grind young people like this into dust if they had no other outlet. Patreon gave them an opportunity to put food on their plates and live under a roof, and now it is being taken away. I would be scared for my livelyhood.

Re: An Open Letter to Patreon

#82

Post by vortico »

Patreon is a company, so the decision is financial. Disallowing adult content kicks off many people who make them commission producing adult content, but allowing them may prevent other content producers from chosing to use Patreon. I really have no idea which group is larger in terms of commissions.

Re: An Open Letter to Patreon

#83

Post by akerro »

vortico wrote: post #82

Patreon is a company, so the decision is financial. Disallowing adult content kicks off many people who make them commission producing adult content, but allowing them may prevent other content producers from chosing to use Patreon. I really have no idea which group is larger in terms of commissions.

Setup another domain nsfw.patreon with the same authentication and shared database, so most people won't see nsfw content there.

Re: An Open Letter to Patreon

#84

Post by kuschku »

kbart wrote: post #78
kuschku wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not when it becomes impossible to exist as a business without relying on such intermediaries, e.g. VISA or MasterCard. Then they are a monopoly, and can't choose their customers anymore.

Monopoly in what? There are plenty of sites that specialize in sex cams, private shows and amateur porn, so why not just go there? There are legitimate reasons to avoid adult content in your private site as it is very easy to get into serious problems where as site owner/administrator your are legally responsible: underage actors, abuse, prostitution claims (where it is illegal) etc. just to name few.

I meant payment processors.

MasterCard, VISA and PayPal all will refuse to do business with you, or pressure you into changing your business, if you're found to be in the pornography or prostitution business. Even if that's legal in your country.

And in Sweden, banks are now collecting fees for getting cash, or paying in cash, of about 10$ each. So you can't really do anything as customer or company without MasterCard or VISA anymore.

At this point, these systems should be split up, or replaced by an international payment standard with nationalised implementors.

Re: An Open Letter to Patreon

#85

Post by hluska »

smnscu wrote: post #72
aaomidi wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how is this even related? The video is the typical misinformed bashing of feminism, etc.

.

First, there is absolutely no way your link is related to this conversation. Second, your tone and use of belittling phrases like 'holy PC war' are way over the top. All in all, this is a very weak comment.

Re: An Open Letter to Patreon

#86

Post by mikojan »

Majestic121 wrote: post #66
Xylakant wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fail to understand what's your issue with this. Are you questioning that the queer, trans, disabled, PoC are in a weaker (and often precarious) position than the cis white (male)? Or is it emotional blackmail to point out that a change (once again) hits hardest for the people that are in a weak position? Isn't it considered common decency to keep in mind the needs of the people that are weaker than us? That might j…

You're using the same kind of 'emotional blackmail' speech, and it is annoying because it forces the discussion into a Manichean stereotype of good (poor, weak, discriminated) vs evil (big company full of white guys trying to stomp on the weak). This is bad for the debate as it tries to shut down all opposition (and I'm not even opposing) and remove all possibility of nuance. This is taking the conversation hostage.…

Would you not be "literally scared" for your life when faced with the prospect of becoming homeless? I would be. Why is it a "tearjerker speech" if that is your situation and if you want that situation to be taken into account as they do? If you think they're lying say so. Calling this a "tearjerker speech" strikes me as dishonest.

Re: An Open Letter to Patreon

#87

Post by icebraining »

vacri wrote: post #60
Xylakant wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fail to understand what's your issue with this. Are you questioning that the queer, trans, disabled, PoC are in a weaker (and often precarious) position than the cis white (male)? Or is it emotional blackmail to point out that a change (once again) hits hardest for the people that are in a weak position? Isn't it considered common decency to keep in mind the needs of the people that are weaker than us? That might j…

Why are demographics not defined by their sexuality (disabled, PoC, english-second-language) more likely to make sexual/nudity content, and hence be more affected by this issue? I'm big on egalitarianism, but I'm not keen on co-opting unrelated groups in order to make your case sound more important.

The letter doesn't say they are more likely to make such content, but that the negative effects are more harmful to people who are already more vulnerable.

Re: An Open Letter to Patreon

#88

Post by chx »

Majestic121 wrote: post #20

I agree with the overall point of shady limitations between porn and adult content leading to discrimination, but this kind of self-victimization : > Not only that, the most vulnerable among us – disproportionately queer, trans, disabled, people of color and those whose first language is not English – are literally scared for our lives. Hurts the whole speech. Is it possible to have this (valid and important) debate…

You are part of the problem. Who do you think you are to judge these people for expressing their fears as not valid fear? Let me guess: you are one of the white male techbros of HN, secure in their income, housing and medical care (so far, I am too) who are quick to put down those who are less fortunate in their lives (this is where we differ). Read more "me too" stories and listen instead of judging.

Read https://www.facebook.com/nicole.stamp/posts/1015611659568934... especially.

Re: An Open Letter to Patreon

#89

Post by aargh_aargh »

erlend_sh wrote: post #79
aargh_aargh wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The benefit is not in the software or service per se. It's in the network effect the existing service already has.

What is the network effect of Patreon? Whatever it is, I don’t consider it to be very strong. Many creators are discovered through their own channels first before their fans learn about their Patreon. OpenCollective made its way into the recurring payments market with relative ease. “All” they needed to do was cater to an underserved niche (open source) that could be serviced better on its own stand-alone platform as…

Consider the perspective of the "patreon" (funder). You choose maybe 5 creators you want to watch and fund. With Patreon you have a convenient place to do that - you're spoonfed new content and you enter your payment info to a single trusted third party, not each individual creator.

I also assume there are great options for discovering new related content and creators.

Disclaimer: I never used Patreon, I only assume that's how it works.

Re: An Open Letter to Patreon

#90

Post by kbart »

kuschku wrote: post #84
kbart wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Monopoly in what? There are plenty of sites that specialize in sex cams, private shows and amateur porn, so why not just go there? There are legitimate reasons to avoid adult content in your private site as it is very easy to get into serious problems where as site owner/administrator your are legally responsible: underage actors, abuse, prostitution claims (where it is illegal) etc. just to name few.

I meant payment processors. MasterCard, VISA and PayPal all will refuse to do business with you, or pressure you into changing your business, if you're found to be in the pornography or prostitution business. Even if that's legal in your country. And in Sweden, banks are now collecting fees for getting cash, or paying in cash, of about 10$ each. So you can't really do anything as customer or company without MasterCar…

So how do legitimate porn sites collect money? It's a multi-billion industry, I'm sure they've solved this problem somehow.
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