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An Open Letter to Patreon

openlettertopatreon.com

61–70 of 245 posts

Re: An Open Letter to Patreon

#61
Patreon probably uses a credit card processor that prohibits selling pornography, as many of them do.

If you're an original content creator you should not be using Patreon as your sole source of income. Patreon is a good way to get attention for your brand, but your primary goal as a creator of goods for sale should always be to funnel your fans to your own website where you control all sales and you don't have to give a portion of each sale to someone else.

Re: An Open Letter to Patreon

#62
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fail to understand what's your issue with this. Are you questioning that the queer, trans, disabled, PoC are in a weaker (and often precarious) position than the cis white (male)? Or is it emotional blackmail to point out that a change (once again) hits hardest for the people that are in a weak position? Isn't it considered common decency to keep in mind the needs of the people that are weaker than us? That might j…

Why are demographics not defined by their sexuality (disabled, PoC, english-second-language) more likely to make sexual/nudity content, and hence be more affected by this issue? I'm big on egalitarianism, but I'm not keen on co-opting unrelated groups in order to make your case sound more important.

Because personal identity becomes more important to people in sexual content, and so sexual content is a disproportionate market for people in those demographics?

Re: An Open Letter to Patreon

#63
What does being "queer, trans, disabled, people of color [or] those whose first language is not English" have to do with selling pornography for tips?

Not quite sure why this letter conflates the two.

Anyway, can't they use some service other than Patreon? For example, there are already quite a lot of 'camwhore' sites around that seem to be doing just fine.

Re: An Open Letter to Patreon

#64
post #8
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt that. Chargebacks are the problem. As soon as you mention to a payment processor that you might be taking for adult content they drop you like a hot brick.

And why is the payment processor doing that? Because they're afraid of the government. Why? Because the government doesn't like boobies. Why? Puritanism...

It's not government puritanism, it's because pornography payments take place in the shadier parts of the spectrum, where there's a hell of a lot more fraud.

Re: An Open Letter to Patreon

#65
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have nothing against erotica/porn and nothing against LBGT , but yeah, the open letter writer seems to be using "Why won't you think of the LBGT community?" line as a talking point, probably because accusing a company of being anti-gay is an effective weapon nowadays... somehow, saying more of this community uses their sexuality to make money (through Patreon) makes me feel "I'm sure the LGBT* accountants and bus d…

Hey, most porn out there is straight. In fact it's a multi-billion dollar industry. Really shows how the straight community uses their sexuality to make money, doesn't it? If you don't fit the target audience of the porn industry, you have to look elsewhere, like Patreon. The mainstream porn business does not cater to everyone. That's fine. The queer market is much smaller. But it also means its over-represented on p…

See the comment by "nippples" above:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15548719

Re: An Open Letter to Patreon

#66

I agree with the overall point of shady limitations between porn and adult content leading to discrimination, but this kind of self-victimization : > Not only that, the most vulnerable among us – disproportionately queer, trans, disabled, people of color and those whose first language is not English – are literally scared for our lives. Hurts the whole speech. Is it possible to have this (valid and important) debate…

I fail to understand what's your issue with this. Are you questioning that the queer, trans, disabled, PoC are in a weaker (and often precarious) position than the cis white (male)? Or is it emotional blackmail to point out that a change (once again) hits hardest for the people that are in a weak position? Isn't it considered common decency to keep in mind the needs of the people that are weaker than us? That might j…

You're using the same kind of 'emotional blackmail' speech, and it is annoying because it forces the discussion into a Manichean stereotype of good (poor, weak, discriminated) vs evil (big company full of white guys trying to stomp on the weak).

This is bad for the debate as it tries to shut down all opposition (and I'm not even opposing) and remove all possibility of nuance. This is taking the conversation hostage.

There's saying that this might greatly impact the (especially vulnerable) LGBT+ population, which is a very valid point and should be taken into account

And then, there's tearjerker speech like :

> the most vulnerable among us – disproportionately queer, trans, disabled, people of color and those whose first language is not English – are literally scared for our lives.

> We know people who would be homeless if it wasn’t for making porn on Patreon – and it’s not a small number.

Which just feels like strong-arming the reader into your opinion

Re: An Open Letter to Patreon

#67

Patreon probably uses a credit card processor that prohibits selling pornography, as many of them do. If you're an original content creator you should not be using Patreon as your sole source of income. Patreon is a good way to get attention for your brand, but your primary goal as a creator of goods for sale should always be to funnel your fans to your own website where you control all sales and you don't have to gi…

5% is a pretty small middleman 'take'. I agree with the 'you shouldn't rely on an independent entity you don't have leverage over', but not because they're taking a cut.

Re: An Open Letter to Patreon

#68
There’s a major opportunity for competition here. A complete open source stack for what Patreon does is already available as free open source software:

https://github.com/opencollective

A sex-positive alternative to Patreon could be up and running within a month. A lone developer could make a viable side-business for them self living off the 10% fee + having their own collection project. This would be good for the OpenCollective org as well, as this would bring more contributors to their open source ecosystem, further strengthening their platform.

The tricky part will be finding a payment gateway that doesn’t prohibit adult content. Yes, cryprocurrencies would also help here, but a lot of people still just want to use their credit cards.

P.S. For the record I think Patreon is a great service, but I don't think they need nor should be the only "recurring payments platform" available.

Re: An Open Letter to Patreon

#69

I agree with the overall point of shady limitations between porn and adult content leading to discrimination, but this kind of self-victimization : > Not only that, the most vulnerable among us – disproportionately queer, trans, disabled, people of color and those whose first language is not English – are literally scared for our lives. Hurts the whole speech. Is it possible to have this (valid and important) debate…

I fail to understand what's your issue with this. Are you questioning that the queer, trans, disabled, PoC are in a weaker (and often precarious) position than the cis white (male)? Or is it emotional blackmail to point out that a change (once again) hits hardest for the people that are in a weak position? Isn't it considered common decency to keep in mind the needs of the people that are weaker than us? That might j…

"scared for our lives" sounds like the same line police officers trot out and repeat over and over when they kill someone they ought not have. I think that sort of claim evokes a negative reaction when it seems like the sentiment is unfounded based on the circumstances because it feels like the person saying it isn't being genuine but just trying to manipulate people.

Re: An Open Letter to Patreon

#70
post #47

If you're living in a free country, say "Fuck" on TV.

I don't understand your point. Fuck is said very often on UK tv.

Yes in the UK. Or on the rest of Europe. In many other places which consider themselves free, there are a lot of things you can't say on TV, "Fuck" being one of them.

There is no beeping on German TV at all, though you may be prosecuted if you say something illegal (slander e.g.).

In in a globalized world we're ending up with the lowest common denominator.

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