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If you care about diversity, don't just hire from the same five schools

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Re: If you care about diversity, don't just hire from the same five schools

#311

Post by Spooky23 »

gonehome wrote: post #112
drewg123 wrote: post #37

When I was at Google, I was asked if I wanted to make a recruiting trip to my alma mater. I was excited until I found out they were talking about my grad school where I got my MS, and not UB, a large state school where I got my BS. I told them I'd be happy to take a trip to recruit at UB. I got mostly crickets back from that reply. However, I ended up getting signed up for a series where they had a panel of a few HR…

I agree - and this is even more true at state schools than the slightly more selective schools (like RPI that I went to). State schools have people that got into MIT, but didn't go for financial reasons or family reasons. Nobody at RPI got into MIT because if they did they would have gone to MIT (maybe some rare exception exists, but this is generally true). School admission is obviously not a perfect indicator of ab…

Plenty of people decide against MIT or leave early.

It’s a pretty hostile environment for many people.

Re: If you care about diversity, don't just hire from the same five schools

#312

Post by cyberpunk0 »

ganeshkrishnan wrote: post #302
samstave wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its like a real-life implementation of that life-score episode of Black Mirror (and what the chinese government is looking to do to their entire population. When I first interviewed with google, it took three-freaking months of panel interviews. Then they said I scored really well, and that I'd have an offer the next day. I got the call the next day and said, in fact, no offer was coming. No reason given. Then they a…

Warms my heart to know that I was not the only person/startup given this treatment. I was invited to pitch my startup to google startup team twice (For their launchpad AI studio and Gradient ventures). Got an email two months later that I made it to the next round and requesting more information about the startup. I sent the emails and then... crickets. Followed up via emails and linkedin and there is just no respons…

You placed your hopes in someone other than yourself and we're disappointed when it didn't go well?

Re: If you care about diversity, don't just hire from the same five schools

#313

Post by hexane360 »

lutorm wrote: post #240
fareesh wrote: post #203

As an outsider in another country, my impression seems to be that the quest for diversity seems to have turned into something of a religion in several cultures. In principle, as a solution to the problem I am principally all in favor of anonymous, faceless, no alma mater preference etc. interviews and application processes, and/or whatever other measures are suggested to remove the possibility of bias or unconscious…

The underlying assumption is that, if you average over a large enough population, there should be no underlying consistent difference between subsets selected on gender, race, or class, so a difference of outcome is presumed to be a result of difference of opportunity. The underlying assumption is definitely an assumption, but it seems like a good zeroth-order assumption to me.

And even if the assumption is wrong, you have to decide how wrong it is. Enough to show 45-55 splits in career choice? 25-75? 10-90?

Re: If you care about diversity, don't just hire from the same five schools

#314

Post by Spooky23 »

dragonwriter wrote: post #280
dba7dba wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is the diversity angle, considering many smart students of minority groups choose to go to public school because many come from families that cannot pay for tuition of the top 5. Very much a diversity issue.

Top 5 universities (and elite private schools more generally) are usually much cheaper than public universities for students with limited means because they have deep pockets for need-based financial aid while public schools have little if any additional campus aid. Now, awareness of this fact may be not widespread enough, skewing the applicant pool toward the outcome.you describe because of perceived cost, but it's…

That’s a common myth.

They usually weasel word the scope of their generosity, treat loans as gifts, etc.

The sticker price is always negotiable, but state schools are usually ahead.

Re: If you care about diversity, don't just hire from the same five schools

#315

Post by walshemj »

cynicalkane wrote: post #170
eropple wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They just don't understand that some people like me, who can get into the (mostly private) elite schools choose to go to a "long tail" school for a variety of reasons (financial, family obligations, etc). Agreed--I was accepted everywhere I applied save one and I ended up going to the University of Maine. I've never hurt for work and I paid off my student loans by the age of 25. Google sniffs around now (aside: rec…

Google's interviewing process is incongruously uneven compared to the rest of the company, which is top-notch. I recommend giving it another thought. (Disclaimer: ex-Googler.)

Why is that I have worked for a big multi national tech company and unless you had passed a 3 day course you where not allowed to interview candidates.

I would have thought that googles Hr would have a better proccess

Re: If you care about diversity, don't just hire from the same five schools

#316

Post by TuringNYC »

vilmosi wrote: post #289
TuringNYC wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Again, statistically. On average, people of all colors don't have an uncle at a hedge fund... Huge numbers of people I went to undergrad with had uncles at hedge funds or big law firms. Those are the people I was competing with for entrance. You're absolutely right, I was never competing with many people in the Midwest (of all races) who had it worse than me because large populations amongst the Ivy League schools…

>>> Huge numbers of people I went to undergrad with had uncles at hedge funds or big law firms. Yes, in a top school in NY. Don't get me wrong, I'm not for "penalising" or "rewarding" anyone for their skin color. I hope you didn't get that message from me. I am way more into personalised life experience reward/penalty system. And that should be limited to scholarships based on socio economic situation, not test score…

>> Yes, in a top school in NY.

Well that is sort of my point...When Asians compete for spots at top universities, they arent really competing against the entire united states, they are competing against the applicant pool.

Ivy League schools get more valedictorian applications than there are seats. Some get more perfect SAT scores than there are seats, so they end up using other factors like sports, well-rounded-ness, speaking ability, unique experiences, etc.

A lot of the folks in that applicant pool have all sorts of unique experiences -- summar safaris in africa, a performance at Lincoln Center, summer internship at a major law firm, internship at some Congressperson's office, etc, etc.

Those types of non-academic admissions factors disfavor most minorities (they espcially disfavor those of African descent given the lack of diversity in most of those fields, which is why i can appreciate affirmative action for clearly underpriviledged groups.)

Now, things are getting better for Asians, Indians, etc and are certainly better than what they were in 1996 when I applied to college. People always tend to point at Nadella, Pandit, Pichai -- but seriously -- how much of the real power base in the US is actually diverse?

Looking beyond technology into the broader economic, cultural, media, and political base of the US, can anyone really argue that Asians are so well represented that they deserve Negative application points relative to all others?

Re: If you care about diversity, don't just hire from the same five schools

#317

Post by ggg9990 »

Interesting, but I don't actually care about diversity. The Silicon Valley giants, often criticized for their low diversity, are among the most successful companies of all time. Apple, the least diverse of them, is the most successful. Forgive me for following the example of the Usain Bolts and not the findings of sprinting researchers.

Re: If you care about diversity, don't just hire from the same five schools

#318

Post by dragonwriter »

Spooky23 wrote: post #314
dragonwriter wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Top 5 universities (and elite private schools more generally) are usually much cheaper than public universities for students with limited means because they have deep pockets for need-based financial aid while public schools have little if any additional campus aid. Now, awareness of this fact may be not widespread enough, skewing the applicant pool toward the outcome.you describe because of perceived cost, but it's…

That’s a common myth. They usually weasel word the scope of their generosity, treat loans as gifts, etc. The sticker price is always negotiable, but state schools are usually ahead.

> That’s a common myth.

Since I personally experienced it, I'm pretty sure it's not.

Re: If you care about diversity, don't just hire from the same five schools

#319

Post by fshaun »

wildmusings wrote: post #250

Universities are allowed to base their entrance on intelligence tests[1], while companies face a strong legal presumption that using such tests is illegal discrimination. The easy way to get around that problem is to hire out of the highest ranked universities. [1] Tests like the SAT correlate very strongly with IQ, and are designed to minimize the value of preparation.

This was my thought as well. I recall reading that IQ/"G" and work products were the dominant predicative factors for good hires. Can anyone help with a source that confirms/refutes? Since new grads wouldn't have many past work products, it would make sense if employers use university admissions as a proxy for general aptitude testing, which are legally difficult to use.

Re: If you care about diversity, don't just hire from the same five schools

#320

Post by hexane360 »

jroseattle wrote: post #232
moftz wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is GPA included? I bombed my first two years at school due to being totally unprepared. I took a semester off and came back to actually do well but the damage was done. I was consistently looked over at nearly every career fair interview. I never put my GPA on my resume and the moment the question would come up, I already knew they weren't going to hire me despite anything else on my resume or what we discussed in th…

No. We have yet to find a predictive correlation between GPA and performance metrics for our employees and their work.

Seeing as you've done some exploratory inference, are there any surprising correlations you have found?
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