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Patterns of Death in the South Still Show the Outlines of Slavery

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Re: Patterns of Death in the South Still Show the Outlines of Slavery

#41

Post by tomjen3 »

ajross wrote: post #23
TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #2

Almost the only people doing well in rural America are those with generational wealth. I know plenty of people from my small hometown that have been doing okay with their farms. One of them has a gravel business. Those without such luck are either moving to a bigger city or experiencing a declining quality of life, and they're coping with drugs, meth mostly. I can't imagine what that would be like in areas that haven…

> The question is, how do we get rural economic development going again? That's like asking how to revive the blacksmith industry in the aftermath of the industrial revolution. These regions aren't declining because of inattention, they're declining because their native industries are shrinking. Surely there are regulatory treatments that can be applied here to relieve some of the suffering, but "return to the good o…

I might agree with you if gp had said how to get the coal industries going again - but is there really _nothing_ which can usefully be made in community with lots of space and (compared to the bay area) insanely cheap housing?

Re: Patterns of Death in the South Still Show the Outlines of Slavery

#42

Post by doomlaser »

ashark wrote: post #14
rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's say you have a reasonably well-paying remote job and you could live anywhere. Let's also say you're married and have children. Do you want them to go to good schools? Do you want them to receive quality healthcare that does not break the bank? Do you want to use convenient services like Uber/Lyft when the need arises? Do you want access to a network of professionals that can help you grow your career? If you an…

I'd probably pick a smallish (sub-250k population) city, I think. The kind that rural folks mean when they say they're going to The City to shop. Maybe a "university town". Beats exurbs or ultra-pricey real cities. The trick is finding one small enough that you aren't stuck with shitty schools if you want to live in the city core.

Champaign-Urbana, IL campus of UIUC, a top 5 CS program, good infrastructure, and charming

Re: Patterns of Death in the South Still Show the Outlines of Slavery

#43

Post by ffxtian »

RingwormOne wrote: post #38
occultist_throw wrote: post #18

Ive always taken an unpopular view about slavery. "We never quit doing slavery." It is true the Constitution was amended after the Civil war to include banning of slavery in most circumstances. However, slavery is explicitly still allowed as a "punishment for a crime". Instead of "Black = Slave", it's "Black = criminal , criminal = slave". After all, it only takes only 6-12 angry white men to find you guilty. I would…

Slavery has had significant long term effects on the black community. That can't be denied. Disproportionate poverty in the black community is directly tied to slavery. However I disagree that slavery - as the term is usually meant to mean - still exists in the form of incarceration. We as a society have decided that certain things are illegal. The black community, because of poverty (so because of slavery), dispropo…

> However I disagree that slavery still exists in the form of incarceration.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penal_labor_in_the_United_Stat...

Re: Patterns of Death in the South Still Show the Outlines of Slavery

#44

Post by riot504 »

ashark wrote: post #35
wolco wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The one thing America has is a high rural population compared to say Canada. Moving more people into cities is a bad approach we need to spread people around the country and raise up small towns instead leaving them.

> Moving more people into cities is a bad approach we need to spread people around the country and raise up small towns instead leaving them. Why? City-dwelling is, broadly, much cheaper (in terms of infrastructure and services) and more environmentally friendly than other arrangements.

How many services do you need? Schools, hospitals, housing, grocery stores and clothing. The outdoors then becomes your entertainment.

Re: Patterns of Death in the South Still Show the Outlines of Slavery

#45

Post by tomjen3 »

megaman22 wrote: post #19
QAPereo wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few generations of really focused, quality education would help a lot more. Until then, I'm afraid it's a bit of a mess.

It'll be a bit of a mess in any case. In a lot of rural school districts, you've got better than half of the students on free-and-reduced lunches, and often upwards of a quarter or a third of the students on IEPs. I grew up in such a place, my mother still teaches in that district. You really need to fix the basic underlying economic issues, so that you don't have kids coming to school hungry, and you don't have the…

Maybe this is just me, but fixing the underlying economic issues sound _hard_. Feeding kids breakfast sounds doable.

Re: Patterns of Death in the South Still Show the Outlines of Slavery

#46

Post by lfam »

slamdance wrote: post #37
occultist_throw wrote: post #18

Ive always taken an unpopular view about slavery. "We never quit doing slavery." It is true the Constitution was amended after the Civil war to include banning of slavery in most circumstances. However, slavery is explicitly still allowed as a "punishment for a crime". Instead of "Black = Slave", it's "Black = criminal , criminal = slave". After all, it only takes only 6-12 angry white men to find you guilty. I would…

so we end the war on drugs and outlaw private prisons. Do you really believe this will satisfy BLM? Do you really believe this will solve the problems in the inner cities? Chicago? Baltimore? St. Louis? There are a LOT of fingers pointing for political reasons, yet some topics and ideas are deemed "off-limits".

Please, feel free to share your "off-limits" ideas, so that we can judge them in the light of day.

Re: Patterns of Death in the South Still Show the Outlines of Slavery

#47

Post by bottles11 »

occultist_throw wrote: post #18

Ive always taken an unpopular view about slavery. "We never quit doing slavery." It is true the Constitution was amended after the Civil war to include banning of slavery in most circumstances. However, slavery is explicitly still allowed as a "punishment for a crime". Instead of "Black = Slave", it's "Black = criminal , criminal = slave". After all, it only takes only 6-12 angry white men to find you guilty. I would…

Video of a Louisiana sheriff complaining that releasing prisoners means he loses free labor. It's from this month, and Louisiana has some of the highest incarceration rates in the country

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pupvjr3dQmI

Re: Patterns of Death in the South Still Show the Outlines of Slavery

#48

Post by goliatone »

RingwormOne wrote: post #38
occultist_throw wrote: post #18

Ive always taken an unpopular view about slavery. "We never quit doing slavery." It is true the Constitution was amended after the Civil war to include banning of slavery in most circumstances. However, slavery is explicitly still allowed as a "punishment for a crime". Instead of "Black = Slave", it's "Black = criminal , criminal = slave". After all, it only takes only 6-12 angry white men to find you guilty. I would…

Slavery has had significant long term effects on the black community. That can't be denied. Disproportionate poverty in the black community is directly tied to slavery. However I disagree that slavery - as the term is usually meant to mean - still exists in the form of incarceration. We as a society have decided that certain things are illegal. The black community, because of poverty (so because of slavery), dispropo…

I agree with the sentiment behind your comment, however I would also consider how the legal system seems to work. If you can’t afford a lawyer then the likelihood of “breaking the law” seems to be higher than otherwise. Also, slavery had plenty of detractors and apologists had arguments in favor of slavery. Some of those arguments were pretty rational sounding (pretty wrong to)

Re: Patterns of Death in the South Still Show the Outlines of Slavery

#49

Post by mikeash »

aaron-lebo wrote: post #30
cletus wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure why you're being downvoted (+1 from me) but this is essentially the basis of the Netflix documentary 13th [1]. The thesis is that slavery was replaced by excessive incarceration of African Americans, which were then used as cheap or free labour... much like slaves were. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/13th_(film)

There's some truth to it but the original post is way too simplistic. They are suggesting that prison, even today, is equivalent to slavery. There is injustice within the modern prison system, but prison is not slavery, at least in the right context it is a place for punishment and rehabilitation. Sure prisons make a profit off their prisoners, but those profits are nothing like those obtained by slavery, it's an ext…

The Constitution explicitly permits slavery for criminals, and many prisons take advantage of this. How is that simplistic?

Re: Patterns of Death in the South Still Show the Outlines of Slavery

#50

Post by RingwormOne »

ffxtian wrote: post #43
RingwormOne wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Slavery has had significant long term effects on the black community. That can't be denied. Disproportionate poverty in the black community is directly tied to slavery. However I disagree that slavery - as the term is usually meant to mean - still exists in the form of incarceration. We as a society have decided that certain things are illegal. The black community, because of poverty (so because of slavery), dispropo…

> However I disagree that slavery still exists in the form of incarceration. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penal_labor_in_the_United_Stat...

Yes, making a criminal - who has committed a crime, been convicted and sentenced to jail time - do work is not equivalent - morally or otherwise - to racialized slavery.
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