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America has a monopoly problem

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Re: America has a monopoly problem

#61

Post by charlesdm »

curiousgeorgio wrote: post #56
whistlerbrk wrote: post #14

America has a corruption problem. The ability for companies to vertically integrate and essentially make smaller businesses non-competitive can only occur when you don't have to pay the taxes your smaller competitors have to pay and don't have to obey the same laws your competitors have to obey. We have a systemic corruption problem (manifested in lobbying) coupled with greed on scales we've never seen before. Everyt…

Think of it this way: it's not that the larger companies are breaking the laws or simply not paying taxes that they owe - they're just being more innovative in how they approach those things. In a global economy, when there's pressure to pay lower wages by outsourcing labor, pay lower taxes by organizing some or all of the company abroad, or exploit loopholes in domestic laws for greater efficiency, that's just what…

That's essentially what is happening when people talk about inversions.

You have multinationals getting around a design flaw in the US tax system, by acquiring a foreign entity and going abroad.

Re: America has a monopoly problem

#62

Post by genzoman »

OtterCoder wrote: post #13

This is brilliant. I recently wrote in to my senator about net neutrality. His reply was a breathtakingly convoluted justification of not regulating companies like Comcast because antitrust laws would take care of it. I've never felt so insulted.

"breathtakingly" convoluted. Click bait alert level 100.

Re: America has a monopoly problem

#63

Post by curiousgeorgio »

autokad wrote: post #60
curiousgeorgio wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Think of it this way: it's not that the larger companies are breaking the laws or simply not paying taxes that they owe - they're just being more innovative in how they approach those things. In a global economy, when there's pressure to pay lower wages by outsourcing labor, pay lower taxes by organizing some or all of the company abroad, or exploit loopholes in domestic laws for greater efficiency, that's just what…

so if if someone takes performance enhancing drugs that has not yet been discovered isn't cheating, they are being innovative. treat it like the olympics. if an athlete that takes a performance enhancing drug that has yet to be prohibited, they still loose their medals and cannot compete.

Except this game isn't governed by just one body. It's a global economy, so even if your own country "strips your medals", you just move to the country that won't do that.

Re: America has a monopoly problem

#64

Post by Synaesthesia »

curiousgeorgio wrote: post #56
whistlerbrk wrote: post #14

America has a corruption problem. The ability for companies to vertically integrate and essentially make smaller businesses non-competitive can only occur when you don't have to pay the taxes your smaller competitors have to pay and don't have to obey the same laws your competitors have to obey. We have a systemic corruption problem (manifested in lobbying) coupled with greed on scales we've never seen before. Everyt…

Think of it this way: it's not that the larger companies are breaking the laws or simply not paying taxes that they owe - they're just being more innovative in how they approach those things. In a global economy, when there's pressure to pay lower wages by outsourcing labor, pay lower taxes by organizing some or all of the company abroad, or exploit loopholes in domestic laws for greater efficiency, that's just what…

You’re not mentioning the outsize influence that corporations have on government which leads to them permitting these loopholes. It can be fixed by legislation.

In 1952 corporate tax in the US was 33% of total revenue. Today it’s less than 9%.

Re: America has a monopoly problem

#65

Post by wu-ikkyu »

athenot wrote: post #55

> We have become a rent-seeking society It just dawned on me while reading the article that this accurately describes the shift from licensed software to SaaS that has been happening in the past decade.

The digital landscape seems to be growing increasingly feudalistic. Users have increasingly less control over the products and services they use.

-Instead of buying a movie or a song, you stream it

-You don't own your data in the cloud

-You don't own the music you buy from Apple

-You can't even take the battery out of many newer model phones

Re: America has a monopoly problem

#66

Post by curiousgeorgio »

Synaesthesia wrote: post #64
curiousgeorgio wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Think of it this way: it's not that the larger companies are breaking the laws or simply not paying taxes that they owe - they're just being more innovative in how they approach those things. In a global economy, when there's pressure to pay lower wages by outsourcing labor, pay lower taxes by organizing some or all of the company abroad, or exploit loopholes in domestic laws for greater efficiency, that's just what…

You’re not mentioning the outsize influence that corporations have on government which leads to them permitting these loopholes. It can be fixed by legislation. In 1952 corporate tax in the US was 33% of total revenue. Today it’s less than 9%.

So, the same people who are already heavily influenced by corporations are somehow going to wave a magic wand to limit the influence of those who are influencing them? Not sure I believe that will happen (at least, not as long as free speech is still a thing). I don't doubt that it could happen - at least in theory - but in my opinion, we're already too far down that rabbit hole.

Re: America has a monopoly problem

#67

Post by charlesdm »

Synaesthesia wrote: post #64
curiousgeorgio wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Think of it this way: it's not that the larger companies are breaking the laws or simply not paying taxes that they owe - they're just being more innovative in how they approach those things. In a global economy, when there's pressure to pay lower wages by outsourcing labor, pay lower taxes by organizing some or all of the company abroad, or exploit loopholes in domestic laws for greater efficiency, that's just what…

You’re not mentioning the outsize influence that corporations have on government which leads to them permitting these loopholes. It can be fixed by legislation. In 1952 corporate tax in the US was 33% of total revenue. Today it’s less than 9%.

Corporate taxes abroad were also often higher than the US rate at the time. Now they are much lower. If you sell X in, say, the UK -- as a company you often have the option: book the profit in the UK, or in the US.

There's not much laws can do to change that, that is just the way having the flexibility to structure your business in whatever way you prefer works.

If you were to reduce the US corporate tax rate to 10%, a lot more profit would be booked in the US again.

Re: America has a monopoly problem

#68

Post by losteric »

emodendroket wrote: post #35
losteric wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

* Peter Thiel's WSJ article: https://www.wsj.com/articles/peter-thiel-competition-is-for-... * Criticism: https://medium.com/@petersimsie/why-peter-thiel-is-dead-wron... * Alternate interpretation of Thiel's intent: https://www.quora.com/Peter-Thiel-claims-that-competition-is...

I mean, in the narrow sense he's of course right -- if you're a business owner or investor the logical thing to do is to aim to create a monopoly. Where I depart is the claim that this is also good for society as a whole.

I agree - didn't feel it was worth mentioning considering the original and the criticism I linked to :)

I like drawing parallels between economics and ecology... monopolies are farms, massive artificial monocultures that suppress natural competition and extract value for the profit of a few. They embody a cycle of growth and stagnation.

A healthy economy is more like a jungle, innumerable smaller competitors with diverse approaches to survival... an extremely resilient and constantly evolving ecosystem that leads to fascinating innovation.

Re: America has a monopoly problem

#69

Post by deusum »

wu-ikkyu wrote: post #65
athenot wrote: post #55

> We have become a rent-seeking society It just dawned on me while reading the article that this accurately describes the shift from licensed software to SaaS that has been happening in the past decade.

The digital landscape seems to be growing increasingly feudalistic. Users have increasingly less control over the products and services they use. -Instead of buying a movie or a song, you stream it -You don't own your data in the cloud -You don't own the music you buy from Apple -You can't even take the battery out of many newer model phones

feudalism

n.

A political and economic system of Europe from the 9th to about the 15th century, based on the holding of all land in fief or fee and the resulting relation of lord to vassal and characterized by homage, legal and military service of tenants, and forfeiture.

Re: America has a monopoly problem

#70

Post by Synaesthesia »

curiousgeorgio wrote: post #66
Synaesthesia wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re not mentioning the outsize influence that corporations have on government which leads to them permitting these loopholes. It can be fixed by legislation. In 1952 corporate tax in the US was 33% of total revenue. Today it’s less than 9%.

So, the same people who are already heavily influenced by corporations are somehow going to wave a magic wand to limit the influence of those who are influencing them? Not sure I believe that will happen (at least, not as long as free speech is still a thing). I don't doubt that it could happen - at least in theory - but in my opinion, we're already too far down that rabbit hole.

No they won’t do it by themselves, they will only do it under pressure from the population.

I’m also pessimistic but that doesn’t mean we should give up. There’s nothing about this that’s writ in stone.

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