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Bay Area hammered by loss of jobs: Lack of affordable housing strangles hiring

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Re: Bay Area hammered by loss of jobs: Lack of affordable housing strangles hiring

#511

Post by Bedon292 »

client4 wrote: post #14

Montana, a land of National parks, natural beauty, fast internet, and a low cost of living has a number of high tech jobs open. Full disclosure, I own an internet company here and want more tech savvy people in the area ;) Social Finanace (SoFi) | Helena, MT Oracle | Bozeman, MT OnXMaps | Missoula, MT Zaneray Group | Whitefish, MT Submittable | Missoula, MT Applied Materials | Kalispell, MT

Thanks for the list, MT has been a place I have admired for a while now. Just had not thought of being able to actually support myself there. I am pretty niche as far as my interests go (Geospatial Development) and there aren't a whole lot of options around. OnXMaps is quite interesting though, exactly up my alley. Didn't know about them before.

Re: Bay Area hammered by loss of jobs: Lack of affordable housing strangles hiring

#512

Post by gnicholas »

turc1656 wrote: post #147
cobookman wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm fairly early in my career at a company ( 80-10-10 mortgage on a 1mil home is only 100k down. And the monthly payments split by 2 people (aka a couple) is ~2k / person / month. That's 4k/month all in once you include the tax rebates.

You honestly think that paying 100k out of pocket in addition to a recurring 4k a month (48k a year!) just on housing is reasonable?

The SF area is a desirable part of the country because of weather and cultural reasons (for some). So people who live here are basically buying access to good climate and desirable activities/amenities.

It's also worth noting that these figures are for a mortgage, which is in part an investment. When the trend of SF area real estate is factored in, it doesn't look as crazy. If you purchase in very popular areas (Palo/Menlo/north MV, on the Peninsula), you're pretty well insulated from downside market risk. Even during the '08 recession, things mostly just flattened out for a couple years (and have since gone on a tear). People used to joke about million-dollar-fixer-uppers. Now even the fixer-uppers are well over a million...

Re: Bay Area hammered by loss of jobs: Lack of affordable housing strangles hiring

#513

Post by Feniks »

davidw wrote: post #240
lisper wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> California's housing crisis has repercussions all up and down the west coast. You're looking at it the wrong way. It's not that the situation in California has wider repercussions, it's that there is a wider problem whose symptoms happen to manifest themselves earliest in California because it's one of the nicer places to live: there are simply too many people and not enough space for them all to live in the nice p…

> there are simply too many people and not enough space for them all to live in the nice places. Tokyo added more housing than the entire state of California: https://www.vox.com/2016/8/8/12390048/san-francisco-housing-... And as someone who lived in Europe for a while, I think we've had the technology to house a fair number of people in desirable area for several hundred years. It's the political will that's lacking…

Americans think government is evil and all that. So there's no government rescue plan to build more housing because that's commie talk. So everyone's waiting for the market to fix it.

Re: Bay Area hammered by loss of jobs: Lack of affordable housing strangles hiring

#514

Post by WalterSear »

ghaff wrote: post #499
WalterSear wrote: post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Commuting to collaborate with other people face-to-face for half the day. How is this inefficient, unsustainable? It provides the combination of private work and group interactions that are parcel of most white collar jobs. The vehicles will be electric, and many will probably spending any idle time at solar farms, to save on energy distribution costs, if they aren't being used as private offices. It is going to allo…

It sounds as if it would make a lot more sense for people to agree on 2 days per week to be in the office and work remotely the other three or something along those lines.

And get up 1.5 hours earlier, two days a week, and get home 1.5 hours later, to sit in their cars?

Moreover: the cadence of business just won't let this happen, or it would be widespread already.

The chance that is coming is that cars drive themselves. As a consequence, part of the business day is going to be spent working during the commute.

Re: Bay Area hammered by loss of jobs: Lack of affordable housing strangles hiring

#515

Post by tytytytytytytyt »

jorblumesea wrote: post #192
tytytytytytytyt wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hardly insane for a house in a large metropolitan area! That's actually pretty reasonable, and lots of apartments in SF are 50% to 100% more in rent. If you look at current, or anything within maybe 5 years, house prices in Seattle I doubt you'll find much if anything within a 15 minute commute to downtown Seattle for a 900/month mortgage.

Other than NYC that's close to 50% more than what you can expect in any large American city. That is not reasonable in any sense of the word. 4k / month mortgage is around a $1 mil home value.

So you're now moving the goalposts from 2k / month up to 4k / month? Nice.

Re: Bay Area hammered by loss of jobs: Lack of affordable housing strangles hiring

#516

Post by gnicholas »

TuringNYC wrote: post #195
turc1656 wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You honestly think that paying 100k out of pocket in addition to a recurring 4k a month (48k a year!) just on housing is reasonable?

I lived through the 2000 tech implosion and in 1999, people though things like this were reasonable. Amongst people who think this is reasonable are probably - Dual earners hoping to bite the bullet before it gets crazier - Those with - Lawyers, VCs, etc to whom this is nothing.

As a former lawyer, I can say that prices these days are high for lawyers and other service providers. Associates/employees are paid hourly so there's limited upside. You can buy a house on a single legal salary, but you won't have much cushion.

Law firm partners are in a much better position, but you can't make equity partner (not just "income partner", which is basically a glorified title they give so you can go get more clients) until you're about 40. And nobody wants to wait that long to buy a home.

Basically, "law firm partners" can be clumped together with VCs, since they both hold stakes in (hopefully) profitable businesses. But most lawyers are not partners.

Re: Bay Area hammered by loss of jobs: Lack of affordable housing strangles hiring

#517

Post by baddox »

StreamBright wrote: post #507
baddox wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nearly all software engineers in San Francisco will be able to afford $2k a month, even if it's tight. They'll be doing close to that anyway in rent. I'm not arguing it's not insane rent/mortgage in absolute terms, but relative to software engineer salaries, it's doable.

They all do have 100K up front? Most software engineers I know have this much in student debt.

Of course most would need to save for at least several years, but I think that’s the case for most people.

Re: Bay Area hammered by loss of jobs: Lack of affordable housing strangles hiring

#518

Post by tytytytytytytyt »

wil421 wrote: post #217
tytytytytytytyt wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hardly insane for a house in a large metropolitan area! That's actually pretty reasonable, and lots of apartments in SF are 50% to 100% more in rent. If you look at current, or anything within maybe 5 years, house prices in Seattle I doubt you'll find much if anything within a 15 minute commute to downtown Seattle for a 900/month mortgage.

Absolutely insane. Going to buy a house with a 15 minute commute by train downtown. I’m looking to spend less than ~350k for a house with around 1500sq feet and fenced in yard. I will be spending less than $2k total a month. West coast is crazy.

2k/month is fine. The guy I responded to is now moving the goalposts up to 4k/month, which is significantly more.

Re: Bay Area hammered by loss of jobs: Lack of affordable housing strangles hiring

#519

Post by Mz »

jamiek88 wrote: post #433
Mz wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sigh. I am really really bad at this. I ask a question. The reply is often defensive. Conversation fails to happen, often coming to a screeching halt. I am not trying to dump a project in your lap. I really appreciated your comment. It makes me want to do something with the info. Before my life was derailed, I was studying to become an urban planner, but was really more interested in regional planning. I have a since…

> More organized than a random comment on HN... You mentioned you are bad at this, just a little unsolicited help - I am not the guy you responded to but even initially got my back up reading that. I was thinking jeez this guy puts his hand out to help, agrees to meet one other local dev, comments how he knows half of them and basically gets accused of laziness / slacktivism! It’s clear you didn’t mean that now, tone…

Well, how can I say that better? How would you inquire if someone is interested in doing something more with the information and willing to discuss it with you? You know, without sounding like a leech imposing on their time with your half baked idea.

I have run multiple websites for years, but I can't figure out how to develop them more effectively. I had a Fortune 500 job. I have a Certificate in GIS. Etc. But, I can't get anyone to take me seriously. It makes me want to spit nails.

Which is probably the wrong way to say all of that too. I appreciate you chiming in here, but what can I do? Knowing what not to do isn't enough.

Re: Bay Area hammered by loss of jobs: Lack of affordable housing strangles hiring

#520

Post by gnicholas »

hpcjoe wrote: post #167
cobookman wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm fairly early in my career at a company ( 80-10-10 mortgage on a 1mil home is only 100k down. And the monthly payments split by 2 people (aka a couple) is ~2k / person / month. That's 4k/month all in once you include the tax rebates.

What are the parameters of that $1M home? For example, I looked at comparables for my current home in a recent job hunt. My reasonable sized (1700 sq ft) house in a good area of Michigan (western Wayne county, bordering Washtenaw and Ann Arbor) is about $250k if we sold today. As far as I could tell, this would not be the down payment on a roughly similar house in comparable neighborhoods in the Bay Area. [added] Whe…

Yeah not great. The biggest issue is that for $1M you're looking at a long commute. Maybe you have a short commute to your current employer, but once you get married or change jobs, someone has to drive from SJ to SF or Pleasanton to Palo Alto.
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