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Bay Area hammered by loss of jobs: Lack of affordable housing strangles hiring

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Re: Bay Area hammered by loss of jobs: Lack of affordable housing strangles hiring

#461

Post by rdtsc »

softawre wrote: post #435
rdtsc wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The funny thing is these companies talk about digital connectivity moving to the cloud, editing files in the cloud, video conferencing in the cloud, make social networks in the cloud, buy things online without leaving your house, watch movies online etc. Everything is online, pretty, efficient, and convenient. Then they turn right around and tell all their employees to move to the area, then to get in their cars, bus…

If that's really such a waste then where are all the remote-only companies eating everybody's lunch? Has it not yet been long enough since remote working has reached some workable peak?

> If that's really such a waste then where are all the remote-only companies eating everybody's lunch?

Maybe they are eating it? Facebook, Amazon, and Google just have a very large buffet and it would take a while for them to notice.

Heck, I am taking little bytes (pun intended) every day ;-)

But seriously, I believe that could be the next revolution in the economy. We had the industrial revolution, the technological one (internet and such). Maybe remote work can be the next one. If it starts happening and large employers start to adopt it, it could change how cities and whole regions evolve.

Re: Bay Area hammered by loss of jobs: Lack of affordable housing strangles hiring

#462

Post by AndrewBissell »

ubernostrum wrote: post #392
nerfhammer wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you need this indirect theory when much simpler numbers like the disparity between increase of population and lack of increase in housing units are available?

Because that theory allows the person promoting it to cling to an assertion that markets are perfect and never produce a bad result, and anything bad that does happen must be the fault of a government which got in the way of the perfection of the market.

Yes, if there are two things that have been driven solely by laissez faire market dynamics in this country, they're mortgage credit extension and the construction of new housing in the Bay Area.

Re: Bay Area hammered by loss of jobs: Lack of affordable housing strangles hiring

#463

Post by Apocryphon »

theDoug wrote: post #53
acangiano wrote: post #27

Why aren't tech companies buying or building massive apartment complexes, making them appealing with a few amenities, and renting them out for cheap to their employees? I know building development in San Francisco proper is limited, but in the general bay area or South is not. Now you have a very attractive package: a relatively big salary and somewhat affordable housing. Talent would be much more willing to relocate…

Many seem very keen to, but most housing initiatives brought before at least the Mountain View and Sunnyvale councils (in my experience) face hard opposition from individual homeowners. And that's how you keep the market up for $2.4 million homes that would go for $300k elsewhere http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/09/12/now-this-is-ridiculous...

You'd think that if big software corporations can lobby in D.C., they could lobby in local communities as well.

Re: Bay Area hammered by loss of jobs: Lack of affordable housing strangles hiring

#464

Post by cobookman »

slezakattack wrote: post #423
cobookman wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After interest deductions on mortgage & property taxes a 1 mil home is ~4000$/month in `rent`. Yes you'd be paying more than 4k but you'd also be taking home more money as well.

I just described a home that is $100k less than the $1MM example. The property tax rate in San Jose is roughly 1.3% of the price of the home you bought it at. So for $1MM, you're looking at $13k in property taxes, not to mention a higher mortgage overall from my example. A quick mortgage calculator tells me that we're adding another $400/mth for the $1MM example. This doesn't include the second mortgage which will ro…

Your combined interest on both roughly tracks 4.1-4.7% overall.

See my comment below.

“so 900k mortgage at 4.1% interest is ~3k of interest and 1.2k of principal for first month. Now you have 1k/month of property tax, 0 HOA (i was not talking about a condo), and 180$/month of insurance. I've been quoted 80-10-10 which have 0 PMI fees. Let's be safe and assume that you're taxed at 30% at your highest level. Its likely you're being taxed at 40% though. Now doing some math.... 3k*0.7 + 1.2k + 1k+0.7+.180k = 4180$/month. Obviously there's maintenance and other costs but that's how much its actually costing you.”

Re: Bay Area hammered by loss of jobs: Lack of affordable housing strangles hiring

#465

Post by ghaff »

mikeash wrote: post #448
ghaff wrote: post #436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NIMBY is such a tired criticism. I live in an exurban/rural town on the East Coast. My town pretty consistently votes against major developments. We like the apple orchards and forest land like it is. We don’t want suburban style developments that increase traffic and taxes or industrial development outside of the light industry on the north side of town near the highway. If you want to call it NIMBY go ahead. As far…

I feel like if you want to control what gets built on a certain parcel of land, you should own it. If you want to keep those apple orchards around, make a better offer when a developer tries to buy them out.

As a practical matter that means no one except the very richest could live anywhere and have any control over arbitrary construction happening next door or their neighborhood as a whole. There’s plenty of precedent throughout history of groups taking collective actions based on the will of the majority.

Re: Bay Area hammered by loss of jobs: Lack of affordable housing strangles hiring

#466

Post by deepsun »

lisper wrote: post #388
deepsun wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you drive 30 minutes any direction from San Francisco, you will see plenty of vast empty fields covered with wild grasses. I don't argue that we should cover all the land available with houses, I like wild grass, but I just point out that if we really hadn't enough space -- we would have settled it already. I've never heard the now popular "Earth is overpopulated" rant from anyone who lives outside major metro. Go…

> I like wild grass And that is the problem. You're not the only one. Yes, if we turned the San Francisco Bay area into a clone of Manhattan or Hong Kong or Tokyo we could accommodate a lot more people. But a lot of people would not consider that a good outcome. People who like that kind of lifestyle can have it in any of the dozens of dense cities on the planet. The SFBay area is desirable precisely because it is no…

Exactly my point -- if we were really overpopulated, then those desires would have stepped aside for the dire need of housing.

Re: Bay Area hammered by loss of jobs: Lack of affordable housing strangles hiring

#467

Post by DarronWyke »

dmode wrote: post #335
DarronWyke wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who's originally from California (not the Bay Area, though), let me tell you this: the cost of living, for what you get, is astronomically high compared to other places. Here in North Texas, I make around 100k/yr, and due to cost of living I can squirrel a lot of that away. We have no state income tax, and our property tax, while high, isn't nearly as high as California's (and will vary depending upon whic…

I have lived in Texas. It absolutely sucks in many ways. No real cities (yes, I have been to Austin, doesn't count). Nothing compared to California when it comes to recreation, vacations, day trips, road trips etc. Acceptance of LGBT lifestyles. Very church oriented (I am a non believer). Low salaries, tech opportunities in Dallas and Houston are not comparable to the Bay.

>No real cities

Erm...guess you don't count some of the largest metroplexes in the country as "cities", do you?

>when it comes to recreations, vacations, day trips, road trips

That's fairly accurate. We don't have a ton of touristy crap, but that's no big deal for me.

>Acceptance of LGBT lifestyles

Did you live in the country or something? Never seen a problem with it here. In any of the urban/metro areas it's no big deal.

>Very church oriented

So? I'm an atheist and I've never had any problems with it. You'll only find a problem if you're actively combative with people about it. Otherwise most people don't care.

>Low salaries, tech opportunities

Houston I can understand. But not Dallas. You must not be looking very hard is all I can say. Even when I haven't been actively looking I get hit up by recruiters all the time. Either that or you're in a very, very specialized field with very low overall demand. My salary has also been going up constantly, and with the cost of living I can live very comfortably with what I make (and I'm not even in the top parts).

Re: Bay Area hammered by loss of jobs: Lack of affordable housing strangles hiring

#468

Post by anonymous5133 »

robbrit wrote: post #31
nimbius wrote: post #16

Most of the bay area employees are divided into 3 categories from anecdotal experience: young rockstars that are willing to live in relative squalor for a chance to prove themselves, vested and moneyed elites (CEO's, presidents, VC funded overlords) who are so out of touch with the average employee its best they not show up to the office that frequently, and H1B visa recipients that endure the soul-crushing San Jose…

A fourth category: people who have lived here for a long time, and were able to buy property back before it became unaffordable. These are typically the managers or senior employees. It makes me wonder that as the young rockstars and H1B recipients age, where will they go? They certainly can't afford to buy a house. I imagine as time goes on, companies in the Bay Area will be awash with young junior talent but will s…

Assuming the companies don't increase wages even higher then they will just open up remote offices in Sacramento or surrounding areas.

Re: Bay Area hammered by loss of jobs: Lack of affordable housing strangles hiring

#469

Post by DarronWyke »

_seemethere wrote: post #282
DarronWyke wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who's originally from California (not the Bay Area, though), let me tell you this: the cost of living, for what you get, is astronomically high compared to other places. Here in North Texas, I make around 100k/yr, and due to cost of living I can squirrel a lot of that away. We have no state income tax, and our property tax, while high, isn't nearly as high as California's (and will vary depending upon whic…

Having lived in both Texas and now California I do have to say that the higher taxes do provide for better public everything. Texas seems so far behind when it comes to things like parks, transportation, and publicly available goods that coming to California is like a dream. I'd happily pay more taxes to be able to have these things be available for everyone.

>parks,

Been to a lot of very nice parks out here, nearly every city has one or more. Some of which are huge with large trails.

>transportation,

You might be confusing the Bay Area (or perhaps even LA) with all of California in general. I'm from San Diego originally. Public transportation there is a joke, plain and simple. BA and LA are both special in that regard.

>and publicly available goods

What is this?

Re: Bay Area hammered by loss of jobs: Lack of affordable housing strangles hiring

#470

Post by aswanson »

softawre wrote: post #435
rdtsc wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The funny thing is these companies talk about digital connectivity moving to the cloud, editing files in the cloud, video conferencing in the cloud, make social networks in the cloud, buy things online without leaving your house, watch movies online etc. Everything is online, pretty, efficient, and convenient. Then they turn right around and tell all their employees to move to the area, then to get in their cars, bus…

If that's really such a waste then where are all the remote-only companies eating everybody's lunch? Has it not yet been long enough since remote working has reached some workable peak?

Maybe they're eating their own lunch. I'd bet if the metric is revenue-per-employee, 37Signals is probably kicking most of the bigger tech companies arses.
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