Bay Area hammered by loss of jobs: Lack of affordable housing strangles hiring • Hacker News Board

Re: Bay Area hammered by loss of jobs: Lack of affordable housing strangles hiring

#171

Post by tzahola » Mon, Oct 23, 2017, 5:41 PM UTC

twobyfour wrote: post #106

nimbius wrote: post #16

Most of the bay area employees are divided into 3 categories from anecdotal experience: young rockstars that are willing to live in relative squalor for a chance to prove themselves, vested and moneyed elites (CEO's, presidents, VC funded overlords) who are so out of touch with the average employee its best they not show up to the office that frequently, and H1B visa recipients that endure the soul-crushing San Jose…

What about the low-paid hourly employees who make food, mop floors, and stand behind cash registers?

Don’t worry, enterpreneurs are working hard replacing them with robots!

Re: Bay Area hammered by loss of jobs: Lack of affordable housing strangles hiring

#172

Post by johnbrodie » Mon, Oct 23, 2017, 5:41 PM UTC

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #37

chis wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it worthwhile to work there for a few years as a 20-year old though? I'm thinking it's a unique experience even if monetarily it's a poor choice.

Yes, I think it’s a great place to be for a while at least. I’m 33, have been here over ten years (grew up nearby) and am still chugging along. The mindless commute through unending traffic to get to the same office day in and day out is slowly driving me a little mad (not really... I think) but I’m beginning to question if I want to stay here long term. Still, I’ve had amazing experiences here and this is a place of…

Cali is the only US state where lane splitting is legal. How many people with a long commute are riding motorcycles to work every day? The weather is great for it. Were I in the bay area, I'd be riding in every day. If not for the love of motorcycles, just to shorten my commute times.

Re: Bay Area hammered by loss of jobs: Lack of affordable housing strangles hiring

#173

Post by 0x445442 » Mon, Oct 23, 2017, 5:42 PM UTC

cobookman wrote: post #109

robbrit wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A fourth category: people who have lived here for a long time, and were able to buy property back before it became unaffordable. These are typically the managers or senior employees. It makes me wonder that as the young rockstars and H1B recipients age, where will they go? They certainly can't afford to buy a house. I imagine as time goes on, companies in the Bay Area will be awash with young junior talent but will s…

I'm fairly early in my career at a company ( 80-10-10 mortgage on a 1mil home is only 100k down. And the monthly payments split by 2 people (aka a couple) is ~2k / person / month. That's 4k/month all in once you include the tax rebates.

And as long as the after tax take home pay of the 2 people is no less than 16K/month and it's a 15-20 year fixed rate mortgage then things should be fine.

The back of the napkin numbers on those parameters; each of those people need to have a salary of 130-150K/year. Certainly not crazy for the well placed Apple, Google and Facebook employees but pretty much a pipe dream for the unwashed masses.

Re: Bay Area hammered by loss of jobs: Lack of affordable housing strangles hiring

#174

Post by JimboOmega » Mon, Oct 23, 2017, 5:42 PM UTC

mabbo wrote: post #78

It seems ironic that the land of self-aggrandizing free market disruption (Uber, AirBnb) seems so against the obvious free-market solution to their problems: increase supply. You have too little of something, and it's causing prices to skyrocket because demand is increasing. So make more of it, reducing the price. I just got back from a visit to the Bay Area. Outside of SF itself, not a single building over 4 stories…

So I generally agree, even within SF itself, basically nothing outside a tiny area of downtown is the height it could be. Tons of the bay area is under built. The regulatory environment is a nightmare. There is intense fear that any new building will bring newcomers that will destroy the community.

That said...

San Jose and Oakland both definitely have downtown portions with 20 story + buildings. RWC has been building bigger too.

Re: Bay Area hammered by loss of jobs: Lack of affordable housing strangles hiring

#175

Post by Yank33Doodle » Mon, Oct 23, 2017, 5:42 PM UTC

0x445442 wrote: post #130

davidw wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> where will they go Other tech hubs. Portland, Seattle - even little Bend has plenty of people from California who are attracted by the (for them) low housing prices. They, in turn, put pressure on housing prices for 'ordinary' people here. California's housing crisis has repercussions all up and down the west coast.

Yeah, I wish more would come to Phoenix and drive up our real estate prices more. I left California right before the last housing bubble burst to take advantage of the real estate arbitrage. I'd love to do it again.

There are no hard rules, but very few of my non-white friends are OK with Phoenix or most other red states. AZ especially given the papers-please laws employed 'randomly' on brown people.

Besides jobs, California offers open minds and much a much friendlier atmosphere for brown people.

Re: Bay Area hammered by loss of jobs: Lack of affordable housing strangles hiring

#176

Post by r00fus » Mon, Oct 23, 2017, 5:42 PM UTC

city41 wrote: post #133

xtacy wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Expanding on the comment below, it's an unfortunate combination of many prevailing issues. 1. One of the things Prop 13 does is to cap the maximum rate at which a property tax grows per annum to 2%. However, due to housing demand, the property values grow at a much faster rate (7% is not unheard of). The property tax can change when there is a sale. 2. Bay area prices have skyrocketed. 3. The peninsula topography and…

The flip side to that is without prop 13, families like this would quickly find they can no longer afford to pay the taxes on their house and are forced to leave. Which is also not a great situation.

That's why the Dems have been courting "split-roll" for a long time, to prevent the corporate abuses of Prop 13 - which can bee pretty powerful, but keep the homeowner version.

Here's how a corporate Prop13 exploit goes: first identify land you want to own that's owned by another corporation. Make a private agreement to buy the property. Over time, replace board of directors of property-owning corp with folks from buying corporation. Eventually you have full control of old corporation, with old tax rates. This happened with Ernst & Julio Gallo for millions of acres of arable vineyards.

Re: Bay Area hammered by loss of jobs: Lack of affordable housing strangles hiring

#177

Post by DarronWyke » Mon, Oct 23, 2017, 5:42 PM UTC

5706906c06c wrote: post #49

38, two kids and a wife. Have been living in a 900SQ/FT apt, I don't know how much longer I can take this before rage quitting and relocating somewhere else (don't know where). The sad part, as a ethnic-minority, I have just found our community for my kids, etc. It would be really tragic if I have to tear my kids away from that. Don't get me wrong, my daily 30 minute commute on BART isn't the worst. The worst part is…

As someone who's originally from California (not the Bay Area, though), let me tell you this: the cost of living, for what you get, is astronomically high compared to other places.

Here in North Texas, I make around 100k/yr, and due to cost of living I can squirrel a lot of that away. We have no state income tax, and our property tax, while high, isn't nearly as high as California's (and will vary depending upon which county you live in -- massively expanding counties like Collin will charge more than rural ones like Johnson).

With that income I was easily able to buy a ~1800sqft two story house in a good neighborhood. My total consistent expenses for each month are maybe 2/3s that of your rent, which includes non-consumables like mortgage, insurance, utilities, etc.

In all of this, of course, I don't have kids and my wife doesn't (currently) work. If your spouse does work, then your spending power here becomes so much greater.

Trust me. Get out. It's the best decision I've ever made and there's absolutely no fucking way I would ever live in CA again.

Re: Bay Area hammered by loss of jobs: Lack of affordable housing strangles hiring

#178

Post by taway_1212 » Mon, Oct 23, 2017, 5:42 PM UTC

whack wrote: post #108

nimbius wrote: post #16

Most of the bay area employees are divided into 3 categories from anecdotal experience: young rockstars that are willing to live in relative squalor for a chance to prove themselves, vested and moneyed elites (CEO's, presidents, VC funded overlords) who are so out of touch with the average employee its best they not show up to the office that frequently, and H1B visa recipients that endure the soul-crushing San Jose…

In which of the above 3 categories would you put the Google/Facebook/Apple employees making 200-300k+ per year? I can't speak towards family living, but as a single person willing to live with roommates, you can find pretty nice places in the heart of Silicon Valley for ~$1000/month. Now add in compensation-packages well over 6 figures, brand-name companies for your resume, networking locally with other great enginee…

Sharing home with strangers is just a no-no for me. In other places, only extreme poverty (ex. as in early USSR) forces people to do it.

Re: Bay Area hammered by loss of jobs: Lack of affordable housing strangles hiring

#179

Post by zcdziura » Mon, Oct 23, 2017, 5:42 PM UTC

cobookman wrote: post #109

robbrit wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A fourth category: people who have lived here for a long time, and were able to buy property back before it became unaffordable. These are typically the managers or senior employees. It makes me wonder that as the young rockstars and H1B recipients age, where will they go? They certainly can't afford to buy a house. I imagine as time goes on, companies in the Bay Area will be awash with young junior talent but will s…

I'm fairly early in my career at a company ( 80-10-10 mortgage on a 1mil home is only 100k down. And the monthly payments split by 2 people (aka a couple) is ~2k / person / month. That's 4k/month all in once you include the tax rebates.

How much land and house does that $1M buy you? In New Hampshire where I live, $1M buys you quite a bit: several thousand square feet of house, several acres of land, an excellent local public school system, great views... Heck, I even imagine that in the greater Boston metro area you'll get a similar bang for your buck.

Your normal family property (approx 1500 - 2000 ft/sq, ~1 acre land) goes for $200k - $250k. Still expensive, but doable, especially if both parents are making decent money (>= $50k/year is what I count as decent money). Less than $30k down payment brings your monthly expenses to less than $2k/mo. Exactly half price for what I'd imagine to be similar living conditions in SF Bay (albeit Bay Area public schools are probably better than NH's, though New England has very good schools).

It's clear that you're making a lot more money than I am for similar experience -- I too am less than 30 years old -- but I wonder the difference in percentage our savable income is, given the difference in costs we both pay for housing. I too wonder for others in our age and job demographic what they're able to save when living in SF Bay vs. elsewhere.

The cost of living there doesn't seem worth it to me. Heck, NE I think is too expensive! Been looking to move down to Raleigh, NC after I get married, but that's neither here nor there.

Re: Bay Area hammered by loss of jobs: Lack of affordable housing strangles hiring

#180

Post by Yank33Doodle » Mon, Oct 23, 2017, 5:42 PM UTC

tkahnoski wrote: post #112

davidw wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> where will they go Other tech hubs. Portland, Seattle - even little Bend has plenty of people from California who are attracted by the (for them) low housing prices. They, in turn, put pressure on housing prices for 'ordinary' people here. California's housing crisis has repercussions all up and down the west coast.

This is a common complaint in Texas as well. Dallas and Austin growth has been crazy and California companies keep relocating. Great for those of us already with houses, terrible for those who don't and don't want to live in remote suburbia.

Terrible for minorities also.