Too much fructose can damage your liver, just like too much alcohol • Hacker News Board

Re: Too much fructose can damage your liver, just like too much alcohol

#11

Post by gopalv » Sun, Oct 22, 2017, 9:29 PM UTC

cies wrote: post #2

Without saying how much is too much :) I wanted to know because it is probably really hard to reach without processing the sugar. IIRC dates are most fructose dense food we can find in nature. How many dates would be enough to damage my liver? It would probably be hard to hurt your liver with alsohol as well, if you limit yourself to unprocessed alcohol (i.e.: by eating off fruits).

> Without saying how much is too much

Body weight, metabolism and exercise have to be big variables.

The scary part is how much sugar sneaks into your daily diet without noticing - I kept count of the sugar grams per day for a workday and I had about 98 gms of sugar & that's where it got labelled (unlike a tomato sauce pasta).

Anyway, all it taught me is that even if exercised like a madman, I won't lose the "moved to US" weight gain without minor diet changes - but what surprised me was that my diet was a good one in the meals, it is just the middle-of-meals grabbing of things that pushed that number up (like a yogurt).

> How many dates would be enough to damage my liver?

I was told that there's two ways to drink twelve glasses of alcohol a month - one's to hit six for two weekends and the other is to drink a glass on Fri, Sat and Sun.

And then said "it's like three pats on the back a week or two punches a month".

Bodies heal and repair damage - and at a varying rate as you age.

Re: Too much fructose can damage your liver, just like too much alcohol

#12

Post by stretchwithme » Sun, Oct 22, 2017, 9:29 PM UTC

Is it possible to buy processed foods that have no fructose. Certainly, fructose is sweeter and that's why it's used so much. But would be great to avoid it altogether. I know you can bake with dextrose.

I wish I'd taken chemistry. I see a lot of conflicting statements about isomers of glucose.

Re: Too much fructose can damage your liver, just like too much alcohol

#13

Post by amasad » Sun, Oct 22, 2017, 9:29 PM UTC

guessmyname wrote: post #7

Too much of everything is always bad.

>Too much of everything is always bad.

That's folk-wisdom, which is sort of a good heuristic but is not useful when we can actually test and demonstrate. Some things are bad even in small quantities, say poison. Somethings we can't get enough of, say fresh air.

I've mostly cut out fructose (and most other forms of sugar) altogether from my diet and it's probably the single-most impactful change that I've made in my lifestyle on my well being.

Re: Too much fructose can damage your liver, just like too much alcohol

#14

Post by stretchwithme » Sun, Oct 22, 2017, 9:31 PM UTC

I hear as bananas ripen, the sucrose breaks down and more fructose is available. That's why they get sweeter. So healthier not to wait too long.

Re: Too much fructose can damage your liver, just like too much alcohol

#15

Post by teach » Sun, Oct 22, 2017, 9:33 PM UTC

SigmundA wrote: post #9

teach wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect there's no good answer to that question. People vary widely. Some people drink lots of alcohol for years with relatively unscathed livers and others get cirrhosis pretty quickly. But your instinct is right that fructose that's bound up in real fruit isn't typically the problem. It's unbound fructose like you find in agave nectar or HFCS.

Why is real fruit not a problem but HFCS is? Dates sugar content is mostly sucrose which is broken down in the small intestine very rapidly into 50/50 glucose/fructose while HFCS is typically 45/55 glucose/fructose. Once one sucrose is metabolized by sucrase it hits the bloodstream as glucose and fructose no different than HFSC. Doesn't only matter in the end how much fructose you consume regardless of whether enters…

That's why I said "unbound" fructose.

Sucrose is glucose and fructose with a chemical bond between. HFCS is a slurry; there's no chemical bond connecting the two.

"Broken down in the small intestine very rapidly into 50/50..." ignores the fact that it takes a while to make it down as far as the small intestine.

I can't speak more to the differences personally because I'm not the one with the PhD and I'm not going to interrupt my wife from grading papers just to correct some rando on the Internet. :)

Re: Too much fructose can damage your liver, just like too much alcohol

#16

Post by will_brown » Sun, Oct 22, 2017, 9:34 PM UTC

>Scientific evidence on fructose and the liver is relatively new

People have been force feeding animals to fatten them up (gavage) for about 5,000 years, but specifically feeding them sugars/grains for the purpose of fattening their liver.

Ever hear of the French delicacy Foie Gras(1)? It literally means fat liver, and after 5,000 years of perfecting fattening liver what do we force feed the animals? Corn! The same fructose we highly concentrate and load into foods and drinks and feed to kids...which goes hand in hand, per the article, with why kids weren’t diagnosed with fatty liver disease pre 1980’s and now 13% of US children have it.

(1) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foie_gras

Re: Too much fructose can damage your liver, just like too much alcohol

#17

Post by Sevrene » Sun, Oct 22, 2017, 9:37 PM UTC

ShabbosGoy wrote: post #5

teach wrote: post #3

Just wanna say that my wife has a PhD in nutrition and this isn't news to us. We've "known" that unbound fructose is hard on the liver for years.

What isn't hard on your liver these days? Most drugs undergo metabolism and activation through the CYP450 system. Meaning that those drugs which clear hepatically are most likely hard on your liver in the long run.

Moderation is the important thing here. It's easier to avoid consuming drugs every day compared to eating a high fructose diet.

Re: Too much fructose can damage your liver, just like too much alcohol

#18

Post by SigmundA » Sun, Oct 22, 2017, 9:39 PM UTC

teach wrote: post #15

SigmundA wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is real fruit not a problem but HFCS is? Dates sugar content is mostly sucrose which is broken down in the small intestine very rapidly into 50/50 glucose/fructose while HFCS is typically 45/55 glucose/fructose. Once one sucrose is metabolized by sucrase it hits the bloodstream as glucose and fructose no different than HFSC. Doesn't only matter in the end how much fructose you consume regardless of whether enters…

That's why I said "unbound" fructose. Sucrose is glucose and fructose with a chemical bond between. HFCS is a slurry; there's no chemical bond connecting the two. "Broken down in the small intestine very rapidly into 50/50..." ignores the fact that it takes a while to make it down as far as the small intestine. I can't speak more to the differences personally because I'm not the one with the PhD and I'm not going to…

Both sucrose and HFSC must make it to the small intestine to be metabolized, the only difference is the chemical bond is broken by sucrase in the intestinal wall. Both are metabolized quickly and into the same components in the bloodstream.

I am still not seeing the difference?

edit

Perhaps I misunderstood what you meant by "unbound" I thought you where referring to the chemical bond in sucrose, vs being bound up physically with fiber in fruit.

Re: Too much fructose can damage your liver, just like too much alcohol

#19

Post by tylererer » Sun, Oct 22, 2017, 9:42 PM UTC

SigmundA wrote: post #9

teach wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect there's no good answer to that question. People vary widely. Some people drink lots of alcohol for years with relatively unscathed livers and others get cirrhosis pretty quickly. But your instinct is right that fructose that's bound up in real fruit isn't typically the problem. It's unbound fructose like you find in agave nectar or HFCS.

Why is real fruit not a problem but HFCS is? Dates sugar content is mostly sucrose which is broken down in the small intestine very rapidly into 50/50 glucose/fructose while HFCS is typically 45/55 glucose/fructose. Once one sucrose is metabolized by sucrase it hits the bloodstream as glucose and fructose no different than HFSC. Doesn't only matter in the end how much fructose you consume regardless of whether enters…

Industrial sugar contains no fiber vs. the fiber in many fruits complementing the fructose and ameliorating potentially harmful effects meanwhile slowing digestion [1]. My guess is this leads to a more sustained energy boost and relatively mild to nonexistent crash depending on how well your body reacts to carbohydrates.

One may need to be somewhat more moderate with dates as they contain little fiber to sugar content - hinting at the importance of varying your fruit diet.

[1] https://nutritionfacts.org/video/if-fructose-is-bad-what-abo...

Re: Too much fructose can damage your liver, just like too much alcohol

#20

Post by DiThi » Sun, Oct 22, 2017, 9:47 PM UTC

SigmundA wrote: post #9

teach wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect there's no good answer to that question. People vary widely. Some people drink lots of alcohol for years with relatively unscathed livers and others get cirrhosis pretty quickly. But your instinct is right that fructose that's bound up in real fruit isn't typically the problem. It's unbound fructose like you find in agave nectar or HFCS.

Why is real fruit not a problem but HFCS is? Dates sugar content is mostly sucrose which is broken down in the small intestine very rapidly into 50/50 glucose/fructose while HFCS is typically 45/55 glucose/fructose. Once one sucrose is metabolized by sucrase it hits the bloodstream as glucose and fructose no different than HFSC. Doesn't only matter in the end how much fructose you consume regardless of whether enters…

> Why is real fruit not a problem but HFCS is?

Fruit has loads of fiber, although less than what our ancestors gathered, and in less quantity. Fiber is what produces satiety. For the same reason fruit juice is not good for you.