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Ask HN: Why do you believe that your religion/faith/worldview is correct?

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Re: Ask HN: Why do you believe that your religion/faith/worldview is correct?

#31
post #6

Muslim here. I'm open to being convinced. In fact, if you want to convince me, my inbox is open. I think it is possibly the most important question to decide on, so I'd appreciate honest discussion. Most online discussions are rarely civil because they're a little dishonest. IMO, there is always going to be lack of evidence for or against. Agnosticism is logical, but I would rather just pick something and experiment…

> 8. If God cared, he would at least let us know before destroying us for being infidels. Hence the Prophets - Jesus, Moses, Muhammad, etc.

Muslim too. But this point is one the biggest reason I lean atheist or agnostic.

If God cared, wouldn't he show something more concrete than send a message through ancient people. Why did he stop sending new prophets? Why not send a prophet for each generation? Why not send an individual messages to each human? Why not send same message to people around the globe, why did he not cared about Chinese or Native Americans?

Then, of course, why make it a sin to question these things? As Muslim kid growing up in Muslim country, I got punished by teachers and other kids when I asked these questions. Why does God give us brain then asks us to not use it?

Re: Ask HN: Why do you believe that your religion/faith/worldview is correct?

#32
post #6

Muslim here. I'm open to being convinced. In fact, if you want to convince me, my inbox is open. I think it is possibly the most important question to decide on, so I'd appreciate honest discussion. Most online discussions are rarely civil because they're a little dishonest. IMO, there is always going to be lack of evidence for or against. Agnosticism is logical, but I would rather just pick something and experiment…

> 6. Completely anecdotal, but Allah answers my prayers. I pray for money, I receive quite a lot of money. I pray to meet people for guidance, I get to meet people who give guidance. I pray for parking, a parking spot opens up. I pray for a banana in the desert, someone gives me a banana the next morning.

This is another popular proof of God I have heard from many people, Muslims, Christians, Hindus, almost everyone. It sounds very selfish and ignorant of the world proof.

There is some sort of selection bias because these people survived and some of their prayers were answered.

It makes me wonder what about other people whose prayers were not answered? What about children whose prayers were not answered. History is full of really evil things happening to people of all religions. It seems at least on group of people should be praying to right God, why didn't God help them?

Re: Ask HN: Why do you believe that your religion/faith/worldview is correct?

#33

I think having seen all of the worst evils in the world committed in the name of some belief, I have dropped concerning myself with anything that isn't scientifically validated. I feel like all organized religions are just some form of control and don't provide any benefit except for forcing an association with a group that might not hold the same complete beliefs as I do, but is essentially pushing those beliefs ont…

I believed the universe was full of planets before our scientists validated it. My belief was based on the emotions I felt looking into the night sky full of the stars. It’d be a dull life if I could not entertain thoughts and feelings unless they were “scientifically validated”.

Be aware (just in case!) your perception of religion as merely a means of control may be a projection of your own desire to control others, out of your own fear of the unknown beyond what is “scientifically known”, and in doing so have made the religious ones who are “others” who believe in something “shady”, “others” who are less than you.

Re: Ask HN: Why do you believe that your religion/faith/worldview is correct?

#34

I think having seen all of the worst evils in the world committed in the name of some belief, I have dropped concerning myself with anything that isn't scientifically validated. I feel like all organized religions are just some form of control and don't provide any benefit except for forcing an association with a group that might not hold the same complete beliefs as I do, but is essentially pushing those beliefs ont…

>One thing that kind of blows my mind still is how the engineers I work with (some of the best most logically discerning minds) can believe in religion.

Be like the inmates in the US who had nothing to do in their lives but lifelong learning, then studied every religion, ideology, -ism they can find and then ultimately reverted to Islam.

Understanding Islam push your logic to its limits while appreciating its limits (i.e. you cannot understand the unseen/ghaib with mind alone, you need to accept the revealed knowledge). In Islamic theology, both acceptance and understanding of the revealed knowledge (Quran and Sunnah), AND using logic to understand the theology itself, are important. Islamic theology at the basic level is easy, however once you go deeper, things get real tough to comprehend -- you need logic at its best to be able to understand.

Re: Ask HN: Why do you believe that your religion/faith/worldview is correct?

#35
Sri Ramakrishna said that all religions are just different path to the same divinity. Just like we call water by different names in different languages but ultimately they all mean the same liquid that quenches thirst , similarly different religions also lead to the same quenching of our spiritual thirst. Sri Ramakrishna not only said that but he practiced reaching enlightenment through different religions.

Re: Ask HN: Why do you believe that your religion/faith/worldview is correct?

#36
The main reasons I hold my belief in the religion of Islam to be true are its compatibility with common sense and the overwhelming amount of outside evidence in favor of it.

Unlike other religious groups that define faith as something you engage in despite facts (a "leap of faith"), I see it as a return to objectivity and reason that is, first and foremost, based on facts.

The first fact I am referring to is the utter helplessness and dependency of mankind on forces outside our control, and the seemingly perfect ordering of everything in the natural world to our advantage even though cosmically we are only a speck of dust and a blip in time.

The second is the existence of individuals throughout history who succeed against all odds in calling their people to worship a wise Creator whom they claim to be sent by, and whose teachings become guiding principles in the minds of billions of people of different races, cultures, and languages.

There are many, many more signposts but these are the most obvious.

Specifically about Islam, I researched the religion before I embraced it and found the exact opposite of what its detractors say. I found a moral teaching superior to all others containing no contradictions with science or reason. Every theological or moral problem that used to trouble me had an answer in Islam, and not only that, but usually in the most ancient sources.

The clarity and "take it on face value" character of Islam was very satisfying to me in a time of my life I was experiencing a lot of confusion. There are no baffling paradoxes in Islam, or ranks of mystic knowledge to climb. It's about accepting simple truths, like the Oneness of God, reality of death, etc. into your heart in deeper and deeper ways, and a sense of communion based on that that transcends millenia and unites continents.

Also, as a side note, there's a very important fact that atheists / agnostics dismiss too easily, which is the answering of prayers. Until you yourself have been in dire need, prayed for something improbable, then received it from a direction you didn't expect, you can't understand the effect that experience has. It's easy just to say, "you're imagining it," or, "confirmation bias."

I am not the type of person to enjoy religious flame wars, just posting for those who are curious.

Re: Ask HN: Why do you believe that your religion/faith/worldview is correct?

#37
post #26
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For a muslim, I would suggest to be extra careful with choice of words describing God especially with point No. 3 and 4. I don't know if I understand what you really meant to convey (your context, nuances, etc.), but you would not want to accidentally commit subtle shirk and invalidate your faith without even noticing. We don't think about God. We think about God's creations instead.

With regards to point 4, the 99 names of Allah supports this. It's very precise on which parts Allah is powerful at, e.g. The Creator, The Raiser of the Dead. There is still omnipotence, just not infinitely so. Also if you look at wording, it's things like "Most Merciful" rather than infinitely merciful.

Dear Muzani, I want to refer you to these verses. There are many like it.

وَلِكُلٍّ وِجْهَةٌ هُوَ مُوَلِّيهَا ۖ فَاسْتَبِقُوا الْخَيْرَاتِ ۚ أَيْنَ مَا تَكُونُوا يَأْتِ بِكُمُ اللَّهُ جَمِيعًا ۚ إِنَّ اللَّهَ عَلَىٰ كُلِّ شَيْءٍ قَدِيرٌ - 2:148

بَدِيعُ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضِ ۖ وَإِذَا قَضَىٰ أَمْرًا فَإِنَّمَا يَقُولُ لَهُ كُن فَيَكُونُ - 2:117

And you have overlooked other attributes, such as al-Qadir.

I also want to say that translations often lack the complete meaning of the original text. We can't base our theology upon a translation such as "Most Merciful".

Re: Ask HN: Why do you believe that your religion/faith/worldview is correct?

#38
post #33

I think having seen all of the worst evils in the world committed in the name of some belief, I have dropped concerning myself with anything that isn't scientifically validated. I feel like all organized religions are just some form of control and don't provide any benefit except for forcing an association with a group that might not hold the same complete beliefs as I do, but is essentially pushing those beliefs ont…

I believed the universe was full of planets before our scientists validated it. My belief was based on the emotions I felt looking into the night sky full of the stars. It’d be a dull life if I could not entertain thoughts and feelings unless they were “scientifically validated”. Be aware (just in case!) your perception of religion as merely a means of control may be a projection of your own desire to control others,…

> I believed the universe was full of planets before our scientists validated it. My belief was based on the emotions I felt looking into the night sky full of the stars. It’d be a dull life if I could not entertain thoughts and feelings unless they were “scientifically validated”.

How old are you? ;) I completely agree with you. I love thinking and imagining reasons for things that we do not yet have answers to. But at the same time I recognize the probabilities of my explanations being correct. While, many followers in organized religions blindly and devoutly believe that their religion is the one true explanation, which is illogical to me.

>Be aware (just in case!) your perception of religion as merely a means of control may be a projection of your own desire to control others, out of your own fear of the unknown beyond what is “scientifically known”, and in doing so have made the religious ones who are “others” who believe in something “shady”, “others” who are less than you.

That's an interesting point. I've accepted that our lives are a temporary spec of existence on an insignificant rock, and I'm oaky with that. I also believe that we should fulfill our evolutionary purpose by propagating, improving technology, and recording information for future generations. If I made it seem that I think religious people are "less than" that is not how I feel. I'm okay with anyone believing anything they want to help them get through their day as long as they aren't harming others. My only point in that sense was the confusion I face with people seeking evidence and facts while engineering things and solving problems, but not applying the same scientific method to everyday life.

A modern example I can think of when it comes to religions being a form of control is how the republican party has a very profound base of religious conservatives. Many of whom are working class people, but the republican party is run mainly by wealthy elite. Most of the fiscal reforms that the republican party espouses do not have a direct impact on the wealth of the working class, but they republican party is able to capture all of these votes. (I have religious family who seem to get most of their political influence from their church). So many other historical examples of religion being a major contributor to the success of empires and countries . The Roman empire and Islamic empires being some examples. Helps you unify people, they are devout because they are promised eternal salvation, etc.

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