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MongoDB shares jump more than 30% in $192M IPO
381–390 of 425 posts
Re: MongoDB shares jump more than 30% in $192M IPO
#382Earlier quoted context omitted.
Thanks for the technical correction. That also being said, I think that definition is terrible and that anybody trying to understand what a relational database is would be better off not reading that article. Yes, I agree that most types of data can be stored in tabular form (or an "n-ary relation" per Wikipedia). I'm just wondering what concrete types of data one would rather store in a document. I don't think there…
> I don't think there is a good example. The decision to store some data outside of an RDBMS must have more to do with the processing model or something else. What else other than the processing model and business requirements would determine how you model and store your data?
That was my point. The person I responded to said that they only store "non-relational data" in NoSQL so I was asking what that was.
Re: MongoDB shares jump more than 30% in $192M IPO
#383Who would have though given that at some point this "Don't use MongoDB" seemed to have taken over HN:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3202081
Re: MongoDB shares jump more than 30% in $192M IPO
#384Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't buy "creating a billion-dollar business". Ive read a Bloomberg story on the IPO and saw there two hilarious sequences "MongoDB has 4,300 paying customers. MongoDB employs 820 people in 29 offices" - that does not compute (for me) so I started analyzing their financial report (btw funny is nobody in whole HN discussion quoted numbers from the report so far, but a lot of 'im buying their stock' talks here). In…
Make sure to look at the revenue growth rate before you short (or encourage HN to do so). What happens if that growth rate continues for another year or two, and they have a standard growth multiple? You’ll lose your shirt. It seems like you’re trying to value the company in a manner that doesn’t make sense for this stage of a company, and you could lose a hell of a lot of money. For the uninitiated in the stock mark…
So long as you're making a loss, there's a lot of ways to "creatively" grow revenue. In the limit case (which would be fraud), you and I can just trade out expensive invoices, declaring each as a loss. This puts a lot of revenue on our books, with no value exchanged.
Mongo don't have to be committing fraud, of course. They could be doing any number of actual business activities that make legitimate trades --- but trades optimised at revenue growth, not profitability.
The major metric for companies used to be profit growth. When companies were optimising for that, it was smart to look at revenue growth as a leading indicator. But Goodhart's law ruins everything: now companies know to optimise for revenue growth, and so its value as a metric is much diminished.
Re: MongoDB shares jump more than 30% in $192M IPO
#385Earlier quoted context omitted.
But how many people reach this stage ?
It starts really early on. When I first used MongoDB I thought to myself "what a fresh breath, I can finally ignore normalization!" The documents I inserted would contain all the information I needed. One retrieval and I got what I needed. Wow!! But then I started doing sorting, searching and I had to do most of the work on the client side (my backend). At that point, I found myself in trouble because in my other tab…
It amazes me how quickly our industry has forgotten the need for DBAs. With these MongoDBs, MPP cloud dbs and Hadoops, everyone seems to have assumed that engineers can now do all db work. This is reflected in the titles too: Data "Engineer".
But from my perspective, this is delusional. There is a lot that goes into DBA's experience that is not solved by the performance improvements in databases over the past decade. But there are more choices. 20-30 years ago, you would have been forced to write code on Oracle and you would have asked for help before deciding how to structure the data. Today, with more choices, you just read some online opinions, and jump on it without any internal resource to guide you.
Not saying the world of Oracle was great, but the young on this thread (me included) would benefit from respecting the experience of the old.
Re: MongoDB shares jump more than 30% in $192M IPO
#386Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sure. The most direct argument against that is that Postgresql jsonb is just non-relational data support in a first class relational DB, which is pretty great, so to an extend you get the best of both worlds, though I'm sure you can find a case where it's not quite optimal vs some nosql db. This talk is a pretty nifty perf overview: https://www.percona.com/live/e17/sessions/high-performance-j... That said, if you kno…
> But with how fast CPUs are these days it's usually not important for a long time. That’s a very naive statement to make.
If you grow and you hit hardware limits then congratulations you are the next facebook/google/etc. Also there's nothing stopping you from switching your current database to something else.
Absolutely majority of the companies will do just fine, because the hardware improves faster than their demands. Starting out with a distributed system "because one day we might need it" is just silly, because chances are you'll never hit it, and you'll have to pay for the overhead of having a distributed system (which is non trivial).
Actually my company started using PG and had presentation and someone asked if we considered a distributed database so we can scale. The presenter nicely said it was evaluated and this solution worked best, but that was too nice.
1. It's only about 100GB of data
2. The hardware is barely utilized, we didn't tune it (except some standard memory settings), because there's no need yet.
3. Our data is relational (in fact most data from most companies is relational)
Re: MongoDB shares jump more than 30% in $192M IPO
#387Earlier quoted context omitted.
How can one short it efficiently?
Most online brokers don't have lending inventory available yet. TD won't let me short.
Of course they don't. Settlement time is T+3. Unless you are MM, until the first IPO + 3 days no shares can be located. At T+3 it will go into hard to borrow list.
Re: MongoDB shares jump more than 30% in $192M IPO
#388Earlier quoted context omitted.
It got significantly better in 3.4 -- this analysis claims that the issues were finally resolved in 3.4 (although they were in the RC) https://jepsen.io/analyses/mongodb-3-4-0-rc3
Thanks. Seems they did some good work indeed. Though it takes time before they get back the trust they lost over this.
Still, the settings that let them pass these tests are not defaults.
And the reason for them being non-defaults is that it will drastically reduce performance.
Edit: Also looks like Kyle saved for the next time testing of server crashes and restarts which is another difficult problem to handle when performance is important.
Re: MongoDB shares jump more than 30% in $192M IPO
#389I think the share price will be eventually consistent.
Is this a pun? For puns I go to Reddit, for substance to HN.
Re: MongoDB shares jump more than 30% in $192M IPO
#390Earlier quoted context omitted.
Make sure to look at the revenue growth rate before you short (or encourage HN to do so). What happens if that growth rate continues for another year or two, and they have a standard growth multiple? You’ll lose your shirt. It seems like you’re trying to value the company in a manner that doesn’t make sense for this stage of a company, and you could lose a hell of a lot of money. For the uninitiated in the stock mark…
So long as you're making a loss, there's a lot of ways to "creatively" grow revenue. In the limit case (which would be fraud), you and I can just trade out expensive invoices, declaring each as a loss. This puts a lot of revenue on our books, with no value exchanged. Mongo don't have to be committing fraud, of course. They could be doing any number of actual business activities that make legitimate trades --- but tra…
Companies optimize for future cashflow, because that’s how value is created.