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MongoDB shares jump more than 30% in $192M IPO

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Re: MongoDB shares jump more than 30% in $192M IPO

#221

Post by paulmd »

da_chicken wrote: post #25
gremlinsinc wrote: post #2

Is it me..or does Mongo not seem as relevent and 'hip' as it once was... I mean I feel postgres is much more solid, and you can combine some of the aspects of document store via the json data types they added... of course I'm not really a DBA and don't have a lot of Mongo experience ... but personally I feel rdbms make more sense for growth/scaling..

RDBMS makes sense for most applications. Most applications store data that can be fit to the relational model. Most applications aren't big data or data mining OLAP. Most RDBMSs can do key-value stores very well now. Most applications also care more about consistency over availability, which is what RDBMSs do (CAP theorem). Many NoSQL data stores choose availability and partitioning and sacrifice consistency (i.e., "…

> Now, if you're running Reddit or Wikipedia or Facebook or HN... do you really care if a user doesn't get the absolute latest version of a document or comment?

I mean... do you? I often come back a few minutes after posting to add something I forgot or rephrase something for clarity. I hate when I am tweaking a Reddit comment a couple times during a period of high server load and I get served an old version of the comment and end up losing something I added in a previous edit.

With something like Wikipedia it would be quite frustrating to lose revisions.

Obviously it is what it is, I can't change their codebase, and I'm sure it's necessary as currently engineered, but is there really no other way to cluster their data except "one big table"? Maybe like shard subreddits to specific servers ala Hyperdex?

But yeah, most places that Mongo is applied aren't exactly Facebook or Reddit either, in terms of total data throughput.

Re: MongoDB shares jump more than 30% in $192M IPO

#222

Post by threeseed »

flukus wrote: post #220
threeseed wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was the first, well known, company supported JSON document store. It is being used by Facebook, Metlife, Expedia, Sony, eBay, Adobe etc. In what way isn't it ready for production use cases ?

You need more than just a list of companies using it, you can create a similar list for just about any technology, good or bad. Sony is a worldwide company with 127,000 employees, they alone probably use just about every database system around. So saying sony uses mongo isn't impressive, for all we know it was just a side project from an intern that has 100 documents, there is no context.

If we use your tortured logic that reference sites are meaningless then no technology in the history of the world is ever production ready.

Well I have worked for a number of billion dollar companies who have run MongoDB so there is first hand evidence.

Re: MongoDB shares jump more than 30% in $192M IPO

#223

Post by HodGreeley »

programmarchy wrote: post #194
hamandcheese wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which NoSQL would you prefer over mongo?

Couchbase has a pretty nice mobile sync system, with clients for both Android and iOS.

Just want to note Couchbase is not just for mobile. Couchbase Server is an enterprise-class document-oriented (like Mongo) db with a dynamic query language that's a superset of SQL. (FD: I work for Couchbase).

Re: MongoDB shares jump more than 30% in $192M IPO

#224

Post by threeseed »

rwallace wrote: post #200
threeseed wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Customer Analytical Record / Feature Engineering Store One customer column, tens of thousands of attribute columns. If you need everything about a customer it is a single, O(1) fetch operation which makes it perfect for driving chat bots, call centres, websites, operational decisioning engines, dashboards etc. Almost every large company will have one of these. You can't really do it in relational systems properly bec…

What would the attribute columns consist of? My experience has been with named columns defined individually by humans, of which I've never seen more than a few hundred; how do you get tens of thousands? Are they a different kind of thing?

Most companies who do it purely by humans can easily get into the thousands of attributes. Have seen it many times before where you hit the column limit of a SQL database.

But where you get into tens/hundreds of thousands is when you have machine learning models automatically selecting and storing important features from the data.

Re: MongoDB shares jump more than 30% in $192M IPO

#225

Post by threeseed »

kuschku wrote: post #182
threeseed wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. EAVT is great as an intermediate format but it is absolutely useless to query for since most of the time you are trying to find a set of attributes for a given entity i.e. full table scan. What you want is a "wide table". One entity column and all the attribute columns to the right. Often with most of the values set to null. This is the dream use case for MongoDB since it you can ignore sparse values yet when you…

> You can't do this at all in PostgreSQL since you will hit a column limit. JSONB is designed for exactly this, isn’t it?

Sure. But MongoDB is far better at scaling, has infinitely better drivers (including Spark) and is about an order of magnitude faster than PostgreSQL for partial updates.

The lack of a Spark driver alone renders PostgreSQL useless for most companies.

Re: MongoDB shares jump more than 30% in $192M IPO

#226

Post by flukus »

threeseed wrote: post #127
bpicolo wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've got options there though https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entity%E2%80%93attribute%E2%80...

No. EAVT is great as an intermediate format but it is absolutely useless to query for since most of the time you are trying to find a set of attributes for a given entity i.e. full table scan. What you want is a "wide table". One entity column and all the attribute columns to the right. Often with most of the values set to null. This is the dream use case for MongoDB since it you can ignore sparse values yet when you…

> EAVT is great as an intermediate format but it is absolutely useless to query for since most of the time you are trying to find a set of attributes for a given entity i.e. full table scan.

This is what indexes are for. An index on the entity id should avoid any full table scans.

Re: MongoDB shares jump more than 30% in $192M IPO

#227

Post by flukus »

threeseed wrote: post #222
flukus wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need more than just a list of companies using it, you can create a similar list for just about any technology, good or bad. Sony is a worldwide company with 127,000 employees, they alone probably use just about every database system around. So saying sony uses mongo isn't impressive, for all we know it was just a side project from an intern that has 100 documents, there is no context.

If we use your tortured logic that reference sites are meaningless then no technology in the history of the world is ever production ready. Well I have worked for a number of billion dollar companies who have run MongoDB so there is first hand evidence.

By your logic Visual Source Safe was production ready.

Re: MongoDB shares jump more than 30% in $192M IPO

#228

Post by inferiorhuman »

praneshp wrote: post #150
threeseed wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was the first, well known, company supported JSON document store. It is being used by Facebook, Metlife, Expedia, Sony, eBay, Adobe etc. In what way isn't it ready for production use cases ?

> In what way isn't it ready for production use cases ? Your parent commenter doesn't like Mongo. So it's not production ready.

> Your parent commenter doesn't like Mongo. So it's not production ready.

Eh I don't like Mongo because I've used it. IDK, it's been a few years since I've had to deal with mongo in a production environment. I don't miss it. I dislike that it's slow to get data to/from the javascript interpreter -- and that the solution was to work around it with the aggregation framework.

I don't like the unsafe defaults (data integrity, access control).

I don't like the magical, unreliable sharding that you have little to no control over.

Re: MongoDB shares jump more than 30% in $192M IPO

#229

Post by inferiorhuman »

threeseed wrote: post #118
inferiorhuman wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Bringing a database to the market with a completely different paradigm, growing it to the enterprise-production-ready level Neither of those are true, however.

It was the first, well known, company supported JSON document store. It is being used by Facebook, Metlife, Expedia, Sony, eBay, Adobe etc. In what way isn't it ready for production use cases ?

> It was the first, well known, company supported JSON document store.

And how is that a paradigm shift? Non-relational, non-SQL databases have been around for a long, long time.

Re: MongoDB shares jump more than 30% in $192M IPO

#230

Post by travisp »

bastijn wrote: post #191

After being introduced to the MongoDB stale read issue in 2015 [1] we abandoned MongoDB and never looked back. Anyone knows if this is resolved in the latest versions? [1] https://aphyr.com/posts/322-jepsen-mongodb-stale-reads

It got significantly better in 3.4 -- this analysis claims that the issues were finally resolved in 3.4 (although they were in the RC) https://jepsen.io/analyses/mongodb-3-4-0-rc3
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