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Computing and the Fermi Paradox: A New Idea Emerges – The Aliens Are All Asleep

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Re: Computing and the Fermi Paradox: A New Idea Emerges – The Aliens Are All Asleep

#41

Post by sametmax »

KozmoNau7 wrote: post #28
TeMPOraL wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> each and every philosophical hypotesis we make is somewhat based on human paradygms, structures, and super-structures Unfortunately, we can't do it any other way, by the very nature of conscious thoughts. > Why can’t we accept that we populated this world for the equivalent of a cosmic blink, and we are therefore unequipped to even grasp the existence of other life forms? Why should we? We might be doing a lousy jo…

> We might be doing a lousy job, but we're doing the best we can. We've literally never done this before, so we don't even have a very good idea whether we're doing a good job or not, that's how clueless we are. Signs are pointing to us more or less killing ourselves, though.

And everything else on the planet. So even without much experience, it's possible we can improve our performance a little on the topic.

Re: Computing and the Fermi Paradox: A New Idea Emerges – The Aliens Are All Asleep

#42

Post by sametmax »

fsloth wrote: post #19
camillomiller wrote: post #12

My humble impression is that each and every philosophical hypotesis we make is somewhat based on human paradygms, structures, and super-structures. Why can’t we accept that we populated this world for the equivalent of a cosmic blink, and we are therefore unequipped to even grasp the existence of other life forms? I am a fan of Bostrom’s conjecture about the simulation, though. 1/3 is a damn high probability. At the…

"I am a fan of Bostrom’s conjecture about the simulation, though." It's boring as hell, metaphysical conjecture, suitable for late night bar talk and deus-ex-machina sci fi plots. The 1/3 probability especially is total bullshit. It's fun if viewed as an art project, and as such has some entertainment value. It does not really explain anything. Unless one enjoys figuring out with theoretical physics, which facets of…

Well, it depends. Often people consider the simulation as the stereotype of sci-fi simulations we read or watched about. But it could be much more than just "being in a computer".

Re: Computing and the Fermi Paradox: A New Idea Emerges – The Aliens Are All Asleep

#43

Post by sametmax »

InclinedPlane wrote: post #20
camillomiller wrote: post #12

My humble impression is that each and every philosophical hypotesis we make is somewhat based on human paradygms, structures, and super-structures. Why can’t we accept that we populated this world for the equivalent of a cosmic blink, and we are therefore unequipped to even grasp the existence of other life forms? I am a fan of Bostrom’s conjecture about the simulation, though. 1/3 is a damn high probability. At the…

I'm reminded of the old problem of the flight of bumble bees. Someone did some calculations on bees, modeling their flight using the same properties of aerodynamics as fixed wing aircraft, and they came to the conclusion that bees couldn't fly. Of course the obvious answer was that bees simply don't fly the way that fixed wing aircraft do and we merely did not understand how they flew at the time (we do know). But im…

It's a beautiful analogy. Especially since we as so keen on learning by repeating something we saw.

Re: Computing and the Fermi Paradox: A New Idea Emerges – The Aliens Are All Asleep

#44

Post by GTP »

This is an interesting idea but from what I know carrying computation in the space just because it's really cold might not be as good as it seems: space it's almost empty (not really a vacuum but with very few matter). This means that in space you can't really loose heat by contact but only by emitting infrared radiations. This means that although space is really cold an object put in space will take some time to cool down. Correct me if I'm wrong but given the fact above I don't see a clear advantage in using space as a heatsink.

Re: Computing and the Fermi Paradox: A New Idea Emerges – The Aliens Are All Asleep

#45

Post by dx034 »

ianai wrote: post #36
KozmoNau7 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The argument I've heard most is that a civilization only has a short time where it's blasting broadcasts into space willy-nilly, before improving their tech and making it more efficient, thus dramatically lowering its potential to be discovered by its stray broadcasts.

I wonder if all habitable planets with simple life would have the conditions necessary to create oil and coal. Love them or hate them, they still power most of our civilization. Imagine if we did not have a gas/coal readily available? We refined nuclear as a weapon first. The need for a nuclear bomb might not arise in a power constrained civilization and thus go much long before being discovered (if ever)

I'm sure someone has simulated that but it appears highly likely that a planet with plants (or any carbon based life) will at some point "generate" fossil fuels.

And maybe, if we hadn't found oil, we would've come up with more efficient ways to use electricity generated from renewable sources. Would've taken longer but we could've made up for that later in the process. Batteries were known at the time of the oil revolution and electricity from hydro & wind were also known.

Re: Computing and the Fermi Paradox: A New Idea Emerges – The Aliens Are All Asleep

#46

Post by sametmax »

pklausler wrote: post #30

We couldn’t detect a remote civilization at a 21st century equivalent stage of development. But at 22nd century level, they’d be able to launch a Bracewell-von Neumann self-replicating interstellar probe... and it would take just one such event to lead to the permanent saturation of the Galaxy by its descendants. So where are they? The only really satisfactory conclusion is that we’re the first or only civilization t…

As others pointed out, you assume that other civilizations have similar technologies, motives, potential, political situation (or politics at all) and even material structure or needs.

It's all speculation.

We have satellites and yet know very little of what's happening in other countries. We mistake their needs and intents all the time. We are regularly surprised of what they are capable or incapable to do. And yet those are identical being living in the same spot as us.

Re: Computing and the Fermi Paradox: A New Idea Emerges – The Aliens Are All Asleep

#47

Post by robotresearcher »

camillomiller wrote: post #15
visarga wrote: post #6

> advanced civilizations just want to compute We got the answer right here. It's much more interesting and probable to meet AGI than aliens. Space travel is dangerous, but virtual space is just as interesting.

Cool plot line for a SF novel. We advance VR so much that we end up meeting another civilization THERE instead of outside.

Count Zero and Mona Lisa Overdrive by William Gibson (sequels to the more famous Neuromancer) have this idea. AIs obtain independence from humans in cyberspace (VR) and eventually make contact with AIs from elsewhere.

Re: Computing and the Fermi Paradox: A New Idea Emerges – The Aliens Are All Asleep

#48

Post by skgoa »

joe_the_user wrote: post #2

The Fermi Paradox is the contradiction between the very reasonable surmise that there must be other forms of technologically advanced life out there somewhere in our great galaxy and the complete lack of any evidence for it. But not quite. This paradox assumes that a more technologically advanced society would naturally expand it's energy usage and output to the point that it could be detected by us. That is, expand…

That's how I have always viewed this. There is no reason why a civilization would blast out EM waves in a 360°*360° sphere at incredibly high energy levels indiscriminately forever and ever. Instead what we have seen right here on Earth over the last 100 years is that technological progress lets us do ever more with ever less energy.

Unless we are talking about detection from a relatively low range, a range where the square-cube law hasn't reduced the energy we would receive by too much, I would not expect us to ever receive random radio transmissions from other civilizations. Which, ultimately, turns the Fermi paradox on its head: it would be incredibly unlikely for another civilization like ours to develop at exactly the same time as us and so close to us.

Re: Computing and the Fermi Paradox: A New Idea Emerges – The Aliens Are All Asleep

#49

Post by camillomiller »

robotresearcher wrote: post #47
camillomiller wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cool plot line for a SF novel. We advance VR so much that we end up meeting another civilization THERE instead of outside.

Count Zero and Mona Lisa Overdrive by William Gibson (sequels to the more famous Neuromancer) have this idea. AIs obtain independence from humans in cyberspace (VR) and eventually make contact with AIs from elsewhere.

Cool! Will check em out

Re: Computing and the Fermi Paradox: A New Idea Emerges – The Aliens Are All Asleep

#50

Post by jules »

joe_the_user wrote: post #2

The Fermi Paradox is the contradiction between the very reasonable surmise that there must be other forms of technologically advanced life out there somewhere in our great galaxy and the complete lack of any evidence for it. But not quite. This paradox assumes that a more technologically advanced society would naturally expand it's energy usage and output to the point that it could be detected by us. That is, expand…

Or civilisations that reach a certain level go into a slow dysgenic decline because civilisation eliminates natural selection.
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