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Just own the damn robots

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Re: Just own the damn robots

#331

Post by grive »

chii wrote: post #319
grive wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For the same reason you can't look over to your neighbor's driveway and say, since he doesn't use his truck all day while he's at work, why can't I drive it ? Now . This sense of ownership will be far more diluted once the truck is entirely automated and only needs ressources to run, while the knowledge that it could be far more efficiently allocated to be used by you at this time is made clear by our connected env…

Your neighbour might not be using said truck right now, but it's availablity for use instantly is in itself valuable. Ownership gives you that. If it was shared, then you lose the instant availablity. Unless the automation creates free trucks for all to use, you scenario can't really come to pass.

> Unless the automation creates free trucks for all to use

This is indeed pretty much the basis for these questions to arise. Not free of course, but such marginal cost that ownership would not mean much.

When instead of 50 cars / trucks, you only need 15 and their cost is shared among the local community, with the price of buying one / maintainance very low due to automation, it will make sense to have this kind of system.

Doesn't mean ownership would disappear, simply that for most people it would be more convenient / cheaper to use this system, and as such most people would choose to do so.

Re: Just own the damn robots

#332

Post by chii »

grive wrote: post #331
chii wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your neighbour might not be using said truck right now, but it's availablity for use instantly is in itself valuable. Ownership gives you that. If it was shared, then you lose the instant availablity. Unless the automation creates free trucks for all to use, you scenario can't really come to pass.

> Unless the automation creates free trucks for all to use This is indeed pretty much the basis for these questions to arise. Not free of course, but such marginal cost that ownership would not mean much. When instead of 50 cars / trucks, you only need 15 and their cost is shared among the local community, with the price of buying one / maintainance very low due to automation, it will make sense to have this kind of…

> such marginal cost that ownership would not mean much.

wouldn't this situation make people own _more_ trucks, rather than less?

Today, we already have the situation with yatchs - people tend not to own a yatch, but share with several families/people. And this is because yatchs are damn expensive to own. If yatchs are as cheap as a car, it'd be trivial to just buy one, even if you aren't using it very often.

Re: Just own the damn robots

#333

Post by galfarragem »

ThomPete wrote: post #103
aorloff wrote: post #102

15 years ago all the software jobs I worked at were retiring clerical workers with software (oh you have 15 people doing spreadsheets ? We can automate that and you won't need them for the same report generation). So this has been going on a lot longer than the article supposes. Yes its true that the sophistication of the automation, and the breadth of its reach (with robots / gig economy) is higher than before, so i…

The point isn't that it's been going on for a long time but the speed with which it is happening today. Furthermore, I don't think most people understand how little the tech sector is. Even in the Bay Area, it's only around 15-20% who actually work in tech. Most people aren't able to just relearn and adopt.

'Most people aren't able to just relearn and adopt.'

Pivoting, or better, adjusting my career to fit in a more plentyful market has been being the most difficult process I ever experienced in my life - despite enjoying to learn and still being a millennial.

Re: Just own the damn robots

#334

Post by mijamo »

toasterlovin wrote: post #322
graphitezepp wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You make this decision when you have kids, not by not having them.

All I'm saying is that, as a reason for not having children, "it would be wrong to bring them into a world like this", is just bad reasoning. We all possess the ability to take our own lives, so if you're alive and considering whether or not to have children, you are demonstrating with your very existence that a life in current circumstances is worth living. Otherwise you would have killed yourself.

Killing yourself is not easy.

There are literally millions of people who have tried repeatedly but the instinct is strong and prevents you from actually doing it. Just go to any psychatric hospital and you will see many people wanting to die, living a miserable life, but who have not quite succeeded in killing themselves, and are just barely maintained alive by the system.

In addition, the fact that life is bearable for one person at one moment doesn't mean it will be so as well for its children in 30 /50 / 60 years.

You can dismiss the argument, but it makes sense and this is why eastern european countries have had such a low fertility for decades now.

Re: Just own the damn robots

#335

Post by ThomPete »

galfarragem wrote: post #333
ThomPete wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point isn't that it's been going on for a long time but the speed with which it is happening today. Furthermore, I don't think most people understand how little the tech sector is. Even in the Bay Area, it's only around 15-20% who actually work in tech. Most people aren't able to just relearn and adopt.

'Most people aren't able to just relearn and adopt.' Pivoting, or better, adjusting my career to fit in a more plentyful market has been being the most difficult process I ever experienced in my life - despite enjoying to learn and still being a millennial.

Agree and the fact that you are make you part of a very small group of people who can. The majority of people can't.

Re: Just own the damn robots

#336

Post by vertere »

aerodeck wrote: post #140
matthewbauer wrote: post #79

Interesting article but I think the premise that workers are buying tech stocks because they fear automation is incorrect. Gallup found 13% of Americans thought that their jobs would soon be replaced by automation[1]. In fact you usually find more people worried about immigration than automation[2]. Maybe people /should/ be more concerned about automation but they just aren’t right now. [1]: http://news.gallup.com/po…

The article mixes its message a bit between automation/disruption/capital. One couldn't really say that Uber is in the business of automation. The capital/labor distinction is more productive, but since it is derived from marxism no one actually uses it. I'm starting to get the impression that this genre of "technology gone bad" article is starting to be a safe surrogate for talking about class. The muddling of terms…

> The capital/labor distinction is more productive, but since it is derived from marxism no one actually uses it.

Capital and labour are very standard notions in economics (and go back at least to Adam Smith).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_(economics)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labour_(economics)

Re: Just own the damn robots

#337

Post by Scea91 »

uoaei wrote: post #68
anigbrowl wrote: post #22

Why not just seize the means of production? Private (real) property is ultimately rooted in the theft of the commons. This has historically been justified using two assertions: that people don't value what they don't own, and that nobody does anything except for profit. Both are highly questionable, yet when counterexamples are offered they are generally dismissed as 'the exception that proves the rule' or some equal…

Exactly. As they say: if the employees own the company, robots on the assembly line would mean vacations, not layoffs.

So how would that work? How would that company originate? What would the founders have from it? At what point would it become owned by employees?

I wonder why no one did this before. There is certainly nothing stopping them from it today if it is such a good idea.

Re: Just own the damn robots

#338

Post by toasterlovin »

mijamo wrote: post #334
toasterlovin wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All I'm saying is that, as a reason for not having children, "it would be wrong to bring them into a world like this", is just bad reasoning. We all possess the ability to take our own lives, so if you're alive and considering whether or not to have children, you are demonstrating with your very existence that a life in current circumstances is worth living. Otherwise you would have killed yourself.

Killing yourself is not easy. There are literally millions of people who have tried repeatedly but the instinct is strong and prevents you from actually doing it. Just go to any psychatric hospital and you will see many people wanting to die, living a miserable life, but who have not quite succeeded in killing themselves, and are just barely maintained alive by the system. In addition, the fact that life is bearable…

A different way to look at it: being alive is so great that it’s worth it despite having to contend with a massive amount of misery.

It just seems wrong to me to deny something so great to your children because you’re worried about global warming or whatever. Let them decide if life is worth living. Give them agency by giving them life.

Also: fertility rates are dropping in all of the developed world. This phenomenon is not unique to Eastern Europe.

Re: Just own the damn robots

#339

Post by superb_herb »

ForRealsies wrote: post #270
bamboozled wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems to be a pretty common attitude amongst a lot of people in their late twenties and early thirties I socialise with (who should probably be well into parenthood). Common question seems to be, "Why bring a child into a world facing climate change, potential nuclear war and a lack of prosperity or opportunities for personal growth". Adopting is probably a better option ;)

Your grandma: 6 kids. Your mother: 2 kids. You: 1 cat and an abortion.

That's disgusting.

Re: Just own the damn robots

#340

Post by [deleted] »

csomar wrote: post #289
Waterluvian wrote: post #98

Reads like this are slowly convincing me not to buy into the world of mortgages and debt and to just live the rest of my life paying for everything in cash. I tried to buy a house last year with my wife but the market exploded where I live and suddenly houses were 40% more expensive from last year. So we still rent, which makes me feel incomplete. Like I'm kind of failing my duty of bringing the Canadian Dream to my…

Are you planning to live in that big dream house all of your life? I have seen it through my parents. They saved money hard till I reached 12-13 where they were able to afford the "house". But guess what, at my 20, pretty much everyone left the house. And now they are staying in this "big empty house" that is expensive as hell to run. The alternative could have been to rent out a nice vila while we were young. It wou…

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