[deleted]
The Acceleration of Addictiveness
181–190 of 289 posts
Re: The Acceleration of Addictiveness
#182I worry about the acceleration of addiction in particular subgroups of the population. WoW (or Farmville), for example, is not crystal meth... but that flippant observation is a response to a core truth that some people just have a lot of trouble saying no. Maybe they're poorly educated, maybe they're genetically predisposed to addiction, maybe they're clinically depressed, for whatever the reason they've got a weake…
As I remarked in my own essay on the subject (linked by billswift below, keyword "superstimuli"), I don't think the problem comes from the edge cases. I think the problem is that if you make a product 5% more addictive than the competition, you can steal 80% of their customers, and this creates an incentive to make things more and more addictive well past the point where it starts to hurt the median customer significantly. The edge cases are just the canaries in the coal mine - the ones who are hurt blatantly, visibly, and undeniably.
Re: The Acceleration of Addictiveness
#183You can probably take it as a rule of thumb from now on that if people don't think you're weird, you're living badly. i've been surprised by just how true this statement is. i resolved to make some lifestyle changes this year to be healthier (without being overly zealous) and it's been amazing how reactions have made me feel like i'm behaving strangely. especially regarding alcohol at social events.
This depends, if you flat refuse all alcohol I can see how this would come across strange at social events. People that are drinking want everyone else in their presence to be loosened up a little as well. I would imagine the reaction would be different between I don't drink and I'm only having a couple. What is more interesting would be if your not drinking but are still relaxed and are lively with other people pres…
I don't drink but have no problem singing along with drunk friends.
Maybe it was those improv classes...
It probably helps that said friends are mature adults who don't use drunkenness as an excuse for antisocial stupidity.
Re: The Acceleration of Addictiveness
#184Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I've noticed that people that claim to be vegetarians do it in such a way that they come off smug. Unfortunately the act of unapologetically refusing to participate in something that most other people do is often considered smug. This is rather similar to the way atheists are considered smug by many religious people where as agnostics are not.
Yup... (not that there aren't plenty of smug people to go around....) I quit drinking for quite a long time - and in some situations it was impossible for me NOT to be rude. I very politely said "Nope, just a diet coke thanks!" when first asked for a drink.... then they'd keep pushing and pushing...... I'd drop a polite "Sorry man, I don't drink...".... no smug at all. It's after that that I might pull some attitude,…
You do realize that your friends are possibly becoming increasingly drunk as they repeatedly ask you if you want a drink.
Re: The Acceleration of Addictiveness
#185Earlier quoted context omitted.
You've now completely changed your argument. Originally it was "mild drugs lead to strong drugs". I noted that alcohol is a mild drug. Now your argument is "mild crime leads to strong crime". If I can summon a good argument against that, will you just come up with a third argument for what you're already committed to believing? Mild crime does not lead to strong crime. Like many people, in my teenage days I downloade…
I have not changed my original stance. I've just provided more arguments to this mild debate. I know, we've all downloaded illegal music and yes many of us believe this is no big deal even though objectively speaking it is wrong. Somebody worked really hard for those songs. OK. So lets agree that doing Marijuana may not 100% of the time lead to cocaine use. That doesn't mean that it doens't increases the likelyhood o…
[deleted]
Re: The Acceleration of Addictiveness
#186Earlier quoted context omitted.
You've now completely changed your argument. Originally it was "mild drugs lead to strong drugs". I noted that alcohol is a mild drug. Now your argument is "mild crime leads to strong crime". If I can summon a good argument against that, will you just come up with a third argument for what you're already committed to believing? Mild crime does not lead to strong crime. Like many people, in my teenage days I downloade…
I have not changed my original stance. I've just provided more arguments to this mild debate. I know, we've all downloaded illegal music and yes many of us believe this is no big deal even though objectively speaking it is wrong. Somebody worked really hard for those songs. OK. So lets agree that doing Marijuana may not 100% of the time lead to cocaine use. That doesn't mean that it doens't increases the likelyhood o…
"Finally, are you making the claim that there is nothing wrong with smoking Marijuana. If so does that mean that you would be OK if your kids smoke Marijuana? Now please be honest."
I'll make that claim. If my children were of an age where marijuana would not hurt their development, I would not only be okay with it, I would smoke it with them and listen to music.
It's possible to have a moral compass aside from the law. Law is a horrible moral compass--governments are among the least moral institutions on earth. Wearing a beard was illegal in communist Albania. My moral compass is totally fine with downloading music and smoking marijuana. It's not fine with waterboarding or theft or murder.
Re: The Acceleration of Addictiveness
#187Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't think the phrase "don't want to want" has any semantic meaning if you try to break it down. Here's a silly contrived example: I am addicted to air. A suffocating person has no air. They are very well aware of their addiction. They wish they did not need air. They "don't want to want" air. The whole of NASA probably wishes humans could get along fine without air. But none of this means that dependance on air i…
I think the reason it seems meaningless not to want to want air is that we're influenced the apparent impossibility of doing without it. But imagine if it actually were possible. E.g. if in some advanced future technology the blood could be oxygenated directly, or our brain states were transferred to some form of computer. Then it's reasonable to imagine someone not wanting to be tied to tedious, corporeal respiratio…
Maybe I am too tired tonight, but I don't see how this reply addresses the question--why is addiction (perhaps specifically "internet addiction" or whatever you want to call it)--bad enough to warrant "hip flask" and other equivalences with alcohol?
My comment about the oxygen was trying to derail the equivalence of addictiveness with badness by a "proof by counterexample". The proof goes like this: If oxygen is addictive, and if it is not bad, then not all addictive things are bad.
I am having trouble parsing your reply, but it seems that the premise of the proof that you are attacking is not the goodness/badness of oxygen, which you do not dispute, but you do not think it qualifies as actually addictive because at some point it will be cured, just as the "dependence" on "[not] flying across the atlantic" was cured.
Again, it is late, and I am probably misreading you, but we will probably at some point find a cure for all sorts of addictions, but this does not make them any less real or potent right now. It might console you, as you suffocate, that someday people will no longer die this way. But it cannot help you. The need for oxygen is still substantial.
Re: The Acceleration of Addictiveness
#188Earlier quoted context omitted.
I defined bad as things you don't want to want. E.g. because while they give you initial pleasure, they might give you net less pleasure in the long run. Though that isn't the only reason you might not want to want something. For example, you might dislike the environmental cost, or the thing might conflict with some principle you held. I don't think there's a sharp distinction between "real" addiction and other type…
I don't think the phrase "don't want to want" has any semantic meaning if you try to break it down. Here's a silly contrived example: I am addicted to air. A suffocating person has no air. They are very well aware of their addiction. They wish they did not need air. They "don't want to want" air. The whole of NASA probably wishes humans could get along fine without air. But none of this means that dependance on air i…
This is something discussed extensively in the philosophy of mind and the philosophy of religion amoungst other places. It is sometimes referred to as a second order desire.
For an obvious example, I want ice cream. I do not want to want ice cream. I know that eating ice cream is counter to my fitness goals and not overly good for my teeth either. Yet, I want ice cream. My first order desire is for ice cream, but I hold a second order desire to not want ice cream.
Your air example fails to be analogous because air is necessary for life. A person may very well be able to stop wanting air, but they will not be able to stop needing it to live.
Re: The Acceleration of Addictiveness
#189Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think the reason it seems meaningless not to want to want air is that we're influenced the apparent impossibility of doing without it. But imagine if it actually were possible. E.g. if in some advanced future technology the blood could be oxygenated directly, or our brain states were transferred to some form of computer. Then it's reasonable to imagine someone not wanting to be tied to tedious, corporeal respiratio…
Maybe I am too tired tonight, but I don't see how this reply addresses the question--why is addiction (perhaps specifically "internet addiction" or whatever you want to call it)--bad enough to warrant "hip flask" and other equivalences with alcohol? My comment about the oxygen was trying to derail the equivalence of addictiveness with badness by a "proof by counterexample". The proof goes like this: If oxygen is addi…
Here's an example: this back-and-forth between you and Paul was fascinating enough that I read every word, but now that I spent 5 minutes doing it, I realize I'd rather have been working on my startup idea. I didn't realize this as I was reading it, but now that I spent a somewhat significant amount of time reading (and now, also, answering), I wish I hadn't. Part of me wants to finish writing this comment and go write code, and another part wants to open github and start playing with implementations of ideas that have been building up over the past two weeks.
In general, something you (1) do often, (2) enjoy while you're doing it (immediate gratification), but (3) don't enjoy having done it in hindsight (gratifying recollection?), can be classified as the bad kind of addictive.
That said, a simple change of framing could make this activity non-addictive. If I think of this comment as engaging in a community of philosophical study of sorts, of "partaking in the hive mind", as they say on reddit, of "swimming in a River", as Yegge once called it, the memory of this comment suddenly has meaning and the recollection is suddenly gratifying.
Re: The Acceleration of Addictiveness
#190Earlier quoted context omitted.
> What does it mean to say it is bad? How about this: if in advance of the behavior, you intend to partake moderately, and in the event you consistently overindulge, and after the fact you regret your excess, then something about this behavior is bad. I'm leaving aside some of the other points you bring up, but if you've got a habit that consistently leads to dissatisfaction and regret, I think it's fair to call it a…
> if in advance of the behavior, you intend to partake moderately, and in the event you consistently overindulge, and after the fact you regret your excess, then something about this behavior is bad. (This is not at all intended to be a joke:) In many cultures, homosexual activity would meet this criteria. There are many social and psychological reasons for guilt to manifest itself, and I don't think that these alone…
> (This is not at all intended to be a joke:) In many cultures, homosexual activity would meet this criteria. There are many social and psychological reasons for guilt to manifest itself, and I don't think that these alone form a robust definition of badness.
Huh? How does that work? Do homosexuals in such homophobic cultures... I dunno, intend to go to the local gay spot for just a blow job and wind up barebacking?