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The Acceleration of Addictiveness

paulgraham.com

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Re: The Acceleration of Addictiveness

#81

Post by Jach »

fmora wrote: post #43
natrius wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think that explanation is particularly probable out of all of the other possibilities? It seems more likely that society would consider actions strange if the actions have justifications that most people don't understand or agree with, and they don't succeed in masking their judgement.

I think this because there are plenty of vegetarians and non-smokers, and non-drinkers around that people overall don't really find it weird. I myself do eat meat and drink alcohol but it is so little overall in a year that you could almost count me as a vegetarian and as a non-alcohol drinker. I do not smoke at all. Also, I've noticed that people that claim to be vegetarians do it in such a way that they come off sm…

I believe you're pretty much right on this, though I'd label it as a form of social signaling rather than outright smugness. It's the sort of group-identification we like, and depending on the group, want to signal "I made a better choice than you, you should be in my group too."

The whole "I'm a vegan!" is similar to "I'm a Christian", "I'm an environmentalist!", "I'm an Objectivist!", "I'm an Atheist!", "I'm gay!" phrases I often hear or read, and that social signaling can easily come off as smug/arrogant/annoying/pushy, and in general just make us not like the person. More action-oriented phrasings like "I don't smoke", "I don't eat meat", "I don't believe in any deity" seem more reasonable and I think they produce better conversation.

Re: The Acceleration of Addictiveness

#82

Post by robryan »

Harj wrote: post #18

You can probably take it as a rule of thumb from now on that if people don't think you're weird, you're living badly. i've been surprised by just how true this statement is. i resolved to make some lifestyle changes this year to be healthier (without being overly zealous) and it's been amazing how reactions have made me feel like i'm behaving strangely. especially regarding alcohol at social events.

This depends, if you flat refuse all alcohol I can see how this would come across strange at social events. People that are drinking want everyone else in their presence to be loosened up a little as well. I would imagine the reaction would be different between I don't drink and I'm only having a couple.

What is more interesting would be if your not drinking but are still relaxed and are lively with other people present, whether you seem strange because your not drinking or whether it's got to do with your interactions due to not drinking.

I personally don't see anything wrong with not drinking unless your acting condescending to those that have had a few.

Re: The Acceleration of Addictiveness

#83

Post by fmora »

gort wrote: post #63
fmora wrote: post #22

Being addicted to cigarrettes is one thing. They are bad but not as bad as drugs like Marijuana (Maybe, don't know, I don't smoke). It seems that for a lot of people that do Marijuana it eventually becomes too mild for them. Also, once they are using drugs, using more potent ones doesn't seem like a big deal. This is only an anecdote: I had a friend who started using Marijuana. He said he only used it once in a while…

Wouldn't it be peculiar if the sort of person who was going to use cocaine didn't first try marijuana, or, for that matter, alcohol or cigarettes? Who jumps in at the deep end?

So basically you are saying that people that will do cocaine will simply do cocaine regardless? Those people are pre-destine do do it so who cares?

Re: The Acceleration of Addictiveness

#84

Post by sprout »

jimbokun wrote: post #15
tmsh wrote: post #4

The link to the Paleolithic diet made me think that one strategy against increasing addition is to normalize for evolutionary time. Still requires a lot of learned, subjective insight. But basically, anything that has proved itself via evolution is more sturdy and is worth congregating around (these include immediate things that affect the body, but also the evolution of societies, etc.). Bravo on another great essay…

"(these include immediate things that affect the body, but also the evolution of societies, etc.)" This is really much of the appeal of Christianity, and other forms of culture that have survived some test of time. I say this in response to pg's foot note: "Unless we mass produce social customs. I suspect the recent resurgence of evangelical Christianity in the US is partly a reaction to drugs." Not just drugs, but a…

Modern evangelical Christianity is very much a mass-market phenomenon. It doesn't exist without Glenn Beck and his ilk, who are very much artifacts of the Internet echo chamber (though they perhaps owe more to Fox News, cable news being a bit of a prototype for the Internet's monotonous assault on reason.)

It's very fashionable in the hacker community to treat Christianity as an anti-science establishment, but that's really a brash generalization that isn't even supported by facts. You'll even find a lot of evangelical Christians who are stauch proponents of the theory of evolution.

It's a rather tired meme that Evangelicals are engaging in an all-out assault on the scientific establishment, when that simply isn't true. There is a large, vocal evangelical contingent that espouses creationism, but 'evangelicals' are a much more complex and noisy bunch than one might expect.

To put it simply: I've been to quite a few churches that were direct examples of the overload culture that PG is writing about. Some of them were evangelical, most of them had congregations whose political beliefs are in no way uniform. And again, evangelical is in no way a synonym for right-wing. PG is overreaching here. But, it was a footnote, so I've already gone on more than is justified.

Re: The Acceleration of Addictiveness

#85

Post by fmora »

dejb wrote: post #77
fmora wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this because there are plenty of vegetarians and non-smokers, and non-drinkers around that people overall don't really find it weird. I myself do eat meat and drink alcohol but it is so little overall in a year that you could almost count me as a vegetarian and as a non-alcohol drinker. I do not smoke at all. Also, I've noticed that people that claim to be vegetarians do it in such a way that they come off sm…

> I've noticed that people that claim to be vegetarians do it in such a way that they come off smug. Unfortunately the act of unapologetically refusing to participate in something that most other people do is often considered smug. This is rather similar to the way atheists are considered smug by many religious people where as agnostics are not.

I don't think religious people consider atheists smug. If nothing else they think they are going to hell. The thing is that many people come out and say "I'm a vegetarian" as if it were the second coming of Jesus. Honestly who gives a crap whether you are a vegetarian or not. No need to announce it to the world.

Re: The Acceleration of Addictiveness

#86

Post by dedward »

dejb wrote: post #77
fmora wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this because there are plenty of vegetarians and non-smokers, and non-drinkers around that people overall don't really find it weird. I myself do eat meat and drink alcohol but it is so little overall in a year that you could almost count me as a vegetarian and as a non-alcohol drinker. I do not smoke at all. Also, I've noticed that people that claim to be vegetarians do it in such a way that they come off sm…

> I've noticed that people that claim to be vegetarians do it in such a way that they come off smug. Unfortunately the act of unapologetically refusing to participate in something that most other people do is often considered smug. This is rather similar to the way atheists are considered smug by many religious people where as agnostics are not.

Yup... (not that there aren't plenty of smug people to go around....)

I quit drinking for quite a long time - and in some situations it was impossible for me NOT to be rude. I very politely said "Nope, just a diet coke thanks!" when first asked for a drink.... then they'd keep pushing and pushing...... I'd drop a polite "Sorry man, I don't drink...".... no smug at all. It's after that that I might pull some attitude, when you just can't leave it alone and won't respect me enough and KEEP ASKING ME TO DRINK. If you're not a friend, and not a colleague, then i'll just ignore you likely. If you are a friend or colleague, you are showing a distinct and inappropriate lack of respect for my decision not to drink. Now - if you are already wasted, I'll grant you a grain of salt or two... I want you to have fun (I'm having fun) - but if you KEEP pushing me, I'm going to KEEP flatly refusing, and at some point, when I'm not having fun anymore, I'm going to leave - and I refuse to be the bad guy in that situation.

Re: The Acceleration of Addictiveness

#87

Post by dedward »

dejb wrote: post #77
fmora wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this because there are plenty of vegetarians and non-smokers, and non-drinkers around that people overall don't really find it weird. I myself do eat meat and drink alcohol but it is so little overall in a year that you could almost count me as a vegetarian and as a non-alcohol drinker. I do not smoke at all. Also, I've noticed that people that claim to be vegetarians do it in such a way that they come off sm…

> I've noticed that people that claim to be vegetarians do it in such a way that they come off smug. Unfortunately the act of unapologetically refusing to participate in something that most other people do is often considered smug. This is rather similar to the way atheists are considered smug by many religious people where as agnostics are not.

Yup... (not that there aren't plenty of smug people to go around....)

I quit drinking for quite a long time - and in some situations it was impossible for me NOT to be rude. I very politely said "Nope, just a diet coke thanks!" when first asked for a drink.... then they'd keep pushing and pushing...... I'd drop a polite "Sorry man, I don't drink...".... no smug at all. It's after that that I might pull some attitude, when you just can't leave it alone and won't respect me enough and KEEP ASKING ME TO DRINK. If you're not a friend, and not a colleague, then i'll just ignore you likely. If you are a friend or colleague, you are showing a distinct and inappropriate lack of respect for my decision not to drink. Now - if you are already wasted, I'll grant you a grain of salt or two... I want you to have fun (I'm having fun) - but if you KEEP pushing me, I'm going to KEEP flatly refusing, and at some point, when I'm not having fun anymore, I'm going to leave - and I refuse to be the bad guy in that situation.

Re: The Acceleration of Addictiveness

#88

Post by gort »

fmora wrote: post #83
gort wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't it be peculiar if the sort of person who was going to use cocaine didn't first try marijuana, or, for that matter, alcohol or cigarettes? Who jumps in at the deep end?

So basically you are saying that people that will do cocaine will simply do cocaine regardless? Those people are pre-destine do do it so who cares?

You have this theory that marijuana (lets be consistent and say alcohol too) cause cocaine use.

You take the fact that cocaine users have almost invariably first used such substances as evidence supporting your theory, without recognising that this pattern is what we would expect to observe in any event. The idea of a cocaine user who has never touched alcohol is a bizarre one.

(By the way, why the focus on marijuana? Can you formulate a version of your argument that doesn't apply just as well to alcohol? I'll grant you that cigarettes have only a mild effect, but the effects of alcohol and cannabis are broadly similar; if anything, alcohol has a stronger effect.)

Re: The Acceleration of Addictiveness

#89

Post by DenisM »

cageface wrote: post #46

It's hard to escape the irony of the situation of the typical programmer. Programming requires extended periods of focus and deep concentration but the very medium in which most of us work is a firestorm of distractions. How can you be an effective mobile app developer if you don't immerse yourself in the experience of mobile media? We're like the crack dealer that has to constantly sample his wares. Like PG and othe…

Concentrate of fostering positive outcomes instead of fighting the negative ones. What do you want to accomplish?

Say, you want to write a new mobile app. Your desire itself will consist of rational analysis and emotional drive, the former being required to make it a sound business and the latter required to plow through to the finish line. Before you start, ask yourself - how much will this project take? one month? Let's make it three months - a good estimate for overruns. Do you have enough drive to plow through it without distraction? If the answer is a resounding, enthusiastic form-the-top-of-your-lungs yes, go right ahead - you will not be distracted because the shining beacon of the goal will pull you in the right direction.

If the answer came up short of "super yes", you need to plan a set of activities that will replenish your enthusiasm. Early user feedback works best for me (and if you can't get it your business itself is iffy). Peer encouragement is second best, if you can get it(that's a good reason to apply to YC). Quality business metrics themselves are motivating in an addictive way, just make sure to get addicted to the right metrics. Lastly, try something that your family and non-techie friend can relate to. If you keep telling everyone in your social circle what you do and they keep staring blank in return it will get to you one day, underminign your motivation. Plan ahead and don't let that happen.

And finally, remember back to what motivated you in the past and do more of that. When you sit right now in front of the computer reading this post you might not remember much right away, but as you spend more time thinking about "what really gets me going" in the coming days, things will start coming to the surface. Write them down as they do.

Re: The Acceleration of Addictiveness

#90

Post by maximumwage »

Why not just give in to information addiction? Unlike many other addictions, there's the possibility that the knowledge gained from it could lead to beneficial outcomes. As the book "Ambient Findability" says: what we find changes who we become.
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