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Pixel Visual Core: Google’s first custom-designed co-processor

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Re: Pixel Visual Core: Google’s first custom-designed co-processor

#61

Post by godelski »

sp332 wrote: post #58
GuB-42 wrote: post #46

So what is that IPU exactly? Lots of buzzwords but few actual details about the architecture. Is it like a integer GPU? The massive amount of ALUs suggests something like that. But later, I see "Notably, because Pixel Visual Core is programmable, we’re already preparing the next set of applications.". So, is it FPGA-like?

It's an Image Processing Unit. Architecturally I'd expect it to look like a GPU, maybe with something like the new matrix-multiply unit from their TPU. https://www.slideshare.net/AntoniosKatsarakis/tensor-process... Edit: wrong name

So I'm seeing this and another comment downvoted. Is that because you're wrong? If so, can one of the people downvoting (or someone else) expand and actually answer the original question?

Re: Pixel Visual Core: Google’s first custom-designed co-processor

#62

Post by buttersb »

Twirrim wrote: post #49
baldfat wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

BUT it is HDR aka they take multiple of photos and use the under exposed for the sky and the more exposed for the faces. So they are doing MUCH more then a histogram.

Sure, but why even do that if a histogram stretch achieves what is effectively the same end result?

In your one example sure. But isn't that sort of short sighted?

Re: Pixel Visual Core: Google’s first custom-designed co-processor

#63

Post by baldfat »

Twirrim wrote: post #49
baldfat wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

BUT it is HDR aka they take multiple of photos and use the under exposed for the sky and the more exposed for the faces. So they are doing MUCH more then a histogram.

Sure, but why even do that if a histogram stretch achieves what is effectively the same end result?

Because in the long run HDR will be better for people who are horrible picture takers.

Re: Pixel Visual Core: Google’s first custom-designed co-processor

#64

Post by ktta »

simonh wrote: post #57

It seems odd to me that Samsung isn't doing things like this. After all they have both the chip design talent in house, they design their own Eynos chips, and even have the fabs in house as well. They're not as well regarded for software, but they do at least have some in house dev capability. A Samsung Galaxy with that sort of differentiation would, like this phone, make even a die hard iPhone user like me take seri…

I'm not sure if they have the software dev capability. Sure, they make nice UIs/apps on top of Android, but what about core computer science and domain specific skills? The new OS they tried to make was apparently full of kernel level bugs.

Google has ML experts, compiler experts, etc. who probably contributed a lot to this. I guess it is a perk of keeping domain experts in the company who are there to advise when time comes.

Re: Pixel Visual Core: Google’s first custom-designed co-processor

#65

Post by Symmetry »

jsolson wrote: post #14
shrewduser wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not so sure... Have they bought or hired any taken like apple did?

You're begging the question here. Apple's acquisition of PA Semi filled a void. You assume a similar void.

The sophistication of the team you need to plug together components into a workable SoC or design something like the TPU processor core is much less than what you'd need to design a top of the line OoO application core. They clearly do have a team that can put together SoCs like the original TPU and if they keep working at it I'm sure they'll be able to train up to doing that eventually but I'd expect a decade long learning process unless they bring on people who've done that sort of thing before.

Re: Pixel Visual Core: Google’s first custom-designed co-processor

#66

Post by sandGorgon »

trishume wrote: post #51
sandGorgon wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My mistake, I phrased my question incorrectly. Why not opencv with a halide backend. The tensorflow whitepaper compares the TF ir to the halide ir. In fact, the work in tensorflow core is around XLA https://www.tensorflow.org/performance/xla/ (which brings compatibility across various architecture) It seems that this is more an attempt at locking the tensors to target custom metal, so that it can't be copied and made…

Halide is much more flexible. OpenCV is a fixed high level toolbox, combining things requires lots of intermediate buffers. Halide allows compiling arbitrary kernels in a fused way with extremely good performance. Sure you could implement OpenCV functions using Halide, but better to expose the lower level more flexible API. Source: I’ve rewritten parts of an OpenCV app in Halide for performance. Also your argument th…

That bet is the problem. Tensorflow on mobile already targets GPU and is going to be even more so with XLA. This debate is going to be hearsay unless we have an apples to apples comparison of the base tensorflow code running on the halide ir targeted to the tpu vs a vanilla ARM GPU... Even using opencv.

I find it telling that they compared cpu vs tpu... Not GPU vs tpu.

Re: Pixel Visual Core: Google’s first custom-designed co-processor

#67

Post by jrs95 »

Maybe Google should start designing it's own CPUs/SoCs as well, since Qualcomm doesn't really seem capable of keeping up with what Apple is doing. Snapdragon 835 came out 6 months after the A10, and scored about 2/3 as well at single core, and less than 10% on Geekbench 4. A11 scored twice what the 835 did on single core, and over 50% more on multi core, and the 835 is going to be the best chip available in the U.S. for Android until sometime next year. Plus, you've got Samsung getting exclusive launch deals for the newest Snapdragon chips now, so other manufacturers are just now launching their flagship devices with hardware that is increasingly far behind what Apple is putting out. This gap could end up being as bad as Intel and AMD pre-Ryzen if something isn't done about it. Imagine what the high end laptop market would have looked like if only Macs had Intel chips!

Re: Pixel Visual Core: Google’s first custom-designed co-processor

#69

Post by [deleted] »

ktta wrote: post #64
simonh wrote: post #57

It seems odd to me that Samsung isn't doing things like this. After all they have both the chip design talent in house, they design their own Eynos chips, and even have the fabs in house as well. They're not as well regarded for software, but they do at least have some in house dev capability. A Samsung Galaxy with that sort of differentiation would, like this phone, make even a die hard iPhone user like me take seri…

I'm not sure if they have the software dev capability. Sure, they make nice UIs/apps on top of Android, but what about core computer science and domain specific skills? The new OS they tried to make was apparently full of kernel level bugs. Google has ML experts, compiler experts, etc. who probably contributed a lot to this. I guess it is a perk of keeping domain experts in the company who are there to advise when ti…

[deleted]
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