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Flatiron School settles for operating without license, employment/salary claims

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Re: Flatiron School settles for operating without license, employment/salary claims

#41

Post by brians »

kowdermeister wrote: post #32
iskander wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The response times on approval can be pretty terrible and you get peppered with a lot of dumb requests by reviewers who don't actually understand the material. (I grew up around my parents' vocational school, board of education interactions looked totally insane)

This. I work at a coding bootcamp and last week we decided to include CSS Grids in the syllabus for the advanced HTML/CSS week and this week we are practicing it. This would never be possible if we needed our syllabus accredited.

I’ve never heard of them stopping you from teaching something extra. Does this mean you dropped something to make room for grids?

Re: Flatiron School settles for operating without license, employment/salary claims

#42

Post by fredleblanc »

iskander wrote: post #29
fredleblanc wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having done some work for a school that's jumped through these hoops, I believe that it's a different definition of "approved." It's not "choose one of these curricula we made up and do that," it's "show us your complete curriculum and defend how this makes a complete program."

The response times on approval can be pretty terrible and you get peppered with a lot of dumb requests by reviewers who don't actually understand the material. (I grew up around my parents' vocational school, board of education interactions looked totally insane)

On timing — absolutely. It puts the old time-estimation adage of "take a developer's estimate and triple it" to shame.

Re: Flatiron School settles for operating without license, employment/salary claims

#43

Post by segmondy »

jefftk wrote: post #6

"Between January and June 2017, Flatiron claimed that 98.5% of its students received employment less than 180 days after graduation and that Flatiron graduates had an average salary of $74,447. However, Flatiron did not disclose clearly and conspicuously that the 98.5% employment rate included not only full time salaried employees but also apprentices, contract employees and self-employed freelance workers, some who…

58% of classroom graduates making $74,447 average seems better than most universities out there. Too bad they had to lie about it.

Re: Flatiron School settles for operating without license, employment/salary claims

#44

Post by asciimo »

jefftk wrote: post #6

"Between January and June 2017, Flatiron claimed that 98.5% of its students received employment less than 180 days after graduation and that Flatiron graduates had an average salary of $74,447. However, Flatiron did not disclose clearly and conspicuously that the 98.5% employment rate included not only full time salaried employees but also apprentices, contract employees and self-employed freelance workers, some who…

I think it's fair to demonstrate that you actually know how to teach adult humans, regardless of the subject matter. A license is a fair standard to measure. Maybe the license criteria need to be modernized?

Re: Flatiron School settles for operating without license, employment/salary claims

#45

Post by PagingCraig »

dopamean wrote: post #5

Though it may seem obvious to people here (on HN) this is a much bigger problem in the industry than people realize. In many ways these bootcamps are repeating the problems found at trade schools in the past. I taught at one for a year, MakerSquare, and found it to be a rewarding and positive experience however I know people at others, including the company that ended up buying MakerSquare who have had different expe…

I graduated from HR recently and they do have their CIRR reporting stuff and it's pretty well done. They have tried to drag other bootcamps into using the same statistics, but there is no incentive to do that.

I can't speak to their advertising and if the new numbers are reflected in that. I can't see bootcamps being around in 5 years without some major changes.

P.S. Career services are provided for remote students.

Re: Flatiron School settles for operating without license, employment/salary claims

#46

Post by fnovd »

geofft wrote: post #39
alphonsegaston wrote: post #12

A while back, Zed Shaw was claiming to have some bootcamp takedown in the works based on dirt from students and insiders. But then nothing ever came of it. Not sure if he was afraid of getting sued or it was just posturing.

This is the same Zed Shaw who believes Python 3 isn't Turing-complete because it's not compatible with Python 2? Why should anyone take him seriously?

I'm not defending all of Shaw's ridiculous critiques of Python 3, but the Turing-complete thing was a joke.

The conversation, IIRC, was something like this:

ZS: Why can't I import or translate Python2 into Python3?

P3: That would be a technically challenging thing to do.

ZS: But surely it is technically possible, even if it is pragmatically unfeasible?

P3: We can't do it.

ZS: OK, Python 3 must be Turing-incomplete, ha ha ha!

source: https://learnpythonthehardway.org/book/nopython3.html

Re: Flatiron School settles for operating without license, employment/salary claims

#47

Post by arkades »

segmondy wrote: post #43
jefftk wrote: post #6

"Between January and June 2017, Flatiron claimed that 98.5% of its students received employment less than 180 days after graduation and that Flatiron graduates had an average salary of $74,447. However, Flatiron did not disclose clearly and conspicuously that the 98.5% employment rate included not only full time salaried employees but also apprentices, contract employees and self-employed freelance workers, some who…

58% of classroom graduates making $74,447 average seems better than most universities out there. Too bad they had to lie about it.

Is it better than a university CS degree?

Re: Flatiron School settles for operating without license, employment/salary claims

#49

Post by kowdermeister »

brians wrote: post #41
kowdermeister wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. I work at a coding bootcamp and last week we decided to include CSS Grids in the syllabus for the advanced HTML/CSS week and this week we are practicing it. This would never be possible if we needed our syllabus accredited.

I’ve never heard of them stopping you from teaching something extra. Does this mean you dropped something to make room for grids?

In my country you can't function like a normal school if your syllabus needs to be accredited and it's not easy to change it.

We didn't really drop anything, an extra day appeared because they were already better prepared before starting the course with basic materials.

Re: Flatiron School settles for operating without license, employment/salary claims

#50

Post by relganz »

lr4444lr wrote: post #10

I'm not the biggest job-hopper, but I've worked at 3 companies in the last 5 years in the NYC area, and have never once worked with, known anyone who's once worked with, or knew a hiring manager who would even consider someone whose only significant background in software was a coding bootcamp. For those who've experienced it, are they hired out of desperation into firms that need manpower and have enough more senior…

Wow, you must not know anyone in NYC tech
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