Flatiron School settles for operating without license, employment/salary claims
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Re: Flatiron School settles for operating without license, employment/salary claims
#2"Under today’s agreement, Flatiron will pay $375,000 in restitution to eligible graduates"
That's better than a fine. Though, it does mention 1000 students total, so perhaps not enough.
Re: Flatiron School settles for operating without license, employment/salary claims
#3its getting real
Re: Flatiron School settles for operating without license, employment/salary claims
#4I'm not sure why people think bootcamps are a replacement for a college degree.
If you look up the LinkedIn Profiles of successful bootcamp grads, about 99% of the time s/he already had a college degree from somewhere such as Amherst or Duke, plus several years of previous professional employment.
Re: Flatiron School settles for operating without license, employment/salary claims
#5Though it may seem obvious to people here (on HN) this is a much bigger problem in the industry than people realize. In many ways these bootcamps are repeating the problems found at trade schools in the past. I taught at one for a year, MakerSquare, and found it to be a rewarding and positive experience however I know people at others, including the company that ended up buying MakerSquare who have had different experiences.
When I worked MakerSquare about three years ago they, Hack Reactor, and I think Dev Bootcamp were trying to lead an initiative that would lead to standardized reporting of hiring stats. This was something we were excited about at MakerSquare because our hiring stats were legitimately great at the time and we knew that in many cases this wasn't true of our competitors. When Hack Reactor bought the company it was assuring to see that they were finding similar success.
One thing that concerns me today, however, is that I still see ads on Facebook and other places for Hack Reactor's immersive program that report the exact same stats they were reporting three years ago. I find it very, very hard to believe those numbers are still accurate. In fact I'd go so far as to say they must be lying. They expanded their program dramatically through acquisition (MakerSquare and others) and then ramping up a very large "remote" program (a program that follows the same curriculum but taught entirely online). When I left MakerSquare (then acquired by Hack Reactor) I was under the impression that career services were not provided for remote students. They must be messing with the numbers somehow.
There needs to be more honesty in the industry because I believe there really is a great opportunity to do good.
Re: Flatiron School settles for operating without license, employment/salary claims
#6"Between January and June 2017, Flatiron claimed that 98.5% of its students received employment less than 180 days after graduation and that Flatiron graduates had an average salary of $74,447. However, Flatiron did not disclose clearly and conspicuously that the 98.5% employment rate included not only full time salaried employees but also apprentices, contract employees and self-employed freelance workers, some who were employed for less than twelve weeks. Similarly, Flatiron failed to clearly and conspicuously disclose that its $74,447 average salary claim included full time employed graduates only, which represent only 58% of classroom graduates and 39% of online graduates."
Good to crack down on this.
"In order to obtain a SED license, a non-degree granting career school must meet a number of criteria, including using an approved curriculum and employing a licensed director and teachers."
This is worrying. Part of why these bootcamps have been a valuable addition is that they've been able to use their own curricula and train their own teachers.
Re: Flatiron School settles for operating without license, employment/salary claims
#7Funny to look back at this now: https://nyti.ms/2vtd04V
NYT on 24 August 2017: "The Flatiron School in New York may have discovered one path. Founded in 2012, Flatiron has a single campus in downtown Manhattan and its main offering is a 15-week immersive coding program with a $15,000 price tag. More than 95 percent of its 1,000 graduates there have landed coding jobs."
two months later
NY AG, 17 October 2017: "However, Flatiron did not disclose clearly and conspicuously that the 98.5% employment rate included not only full time salaried employees but also apprentices, contract employees and self-employed freelance workers, some who were employed for less than twelve weeks. Similarly, Flatiron failed to clearly and conspicuously disclose that its $74,447 average salary claim included full time employed graduates only, which represent only 58% of classroom graduates and 39% of online graduates."
Re: Flatiron School settles for operating without license, employment/salary claims
#8"Under today’s agreement, Flatiron will pay $375,000 in restitution to eligible graduates" That's better than a fine. Though, it does mention 1000 students total, so perhaps not enough.
The school, which has taught approximately 1,000 students, charges students between $12,000 and $15,000 for a 12 to 16 week in-person class and approximately $1,500 a month for online coding classes.
Let's assume a very conservative estimate of 800 students doing 1 of online work, and 200 students paying $12k for a class. That works out to $1.2M in online tuition, and $2.4M in in-person tuition. Given how conservative my estimate is, $375k seems like a pittance for operating without a license and lying about success rates.
Re: Flatiron School settles for operating without license, employment/salary claims
#9>Reinvent your career at tech’s most trusted bootcamp
If this is "most trusted" , i wonder what shady stuff is going on in other bootcamps.
Re: Flatiron School settles for operating without license, employment/salary claims
#10I'm not the biggest job-hopper, but I've worked at 3 companies in the last 5 years in the NYC area, and have never once worked with, known anyone who's once worked with, or knew a hiring manager who would even consider someone whose only significant background in software was a coding bootcamp. For those who've experienced it, are they hired out of desperation into firms that need manpower and have enough more senior devs. to get them up to working competency or what?