Why Are Millennials Wary of Freedom? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why Are Millennials Wary of Freedom?

#11

Post by Brendinooo » Mon, Oct 16, 2017, 9:48 PM UTC

No one born in the mid-80s onward ever faced an outside existential threat like Hitler or the Soviets. It's not hard to imagine that people who only know relative freedom have a harder time appreciating that freedom. The grass is always greener elsewhere.

Fear is a good answer here, though phrases like "helicopter parenting" and "victimhood culture" might bely some existing biases by the author. Perhaps the fear of the "other" tribe are driving these shifts; after all, I doubt that anyone who says they'd be in favor of restricting speech feel like their speech will be restricted.

And it's also possible that a decade or so of gridlock is taking its toll. If this is what freedom looks like, could you blame someone for wanting to try something different? Not saying that's true of me, but I can see how it would happen.

Re: Why Are Millennials Wary of Freedom?

#12

Post by derefr » Mon, Oct 16, 2017, 9:48 PM UTC

I wonder whether this is object-level or meta-level wariness.

Object-level: thinking that people today are mostly awful, and that someone needs to police their behavior and choices (e.g. stop people from voting for people like Trump.)

Meta-level: thinking that the subcultures trying to police everyone's behaviour right now (e.g. Social Justice) are heavy on bullying, and it'd be nice if this sort of bullying was regulated/stopped/silenced somehow.

I know both of these effects exist to a certain extent in the US—but which one is specifically "millennials", and which is older people?

Re: Why Are Millennials Wary of Freedom?

#13

Post by watwut » Mon, Oct 16, 2017, 9:48 PM UTC

The generation that was in power while incarceration rates skyrocketed (which also means more people without voting rights) and that tends to have quite unforgiving attitude towards failures/mistakes complains that young people are not freedom loving enough.

Re: Why Are Millennials Wary of Freedom?

#14

Post by dafad » Mon, Oct 16, 2017, 9:49 PM UTC

imustbeevil wrote: post #8

ithilglin909 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being sick of bullshit is fine. Having the government regulate bull-shitting is a huge step towards tyranny.

What is one example of the government regulating free speech through law in the last 10 years?

Here's another (UK though) http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/arrests-for-offensive-f...

Re: Why Are Millennials Wary of Freedom?

#15

Post by noobermin » Mon, Oct 16, 2017, 9:49 PM UTC

aaron-lebo wrote: post #10

mbillie1 wrote: post #7

In the US at any rate you need a fairly significant amount of disposable income to meaningfully be free. Of course you are "free" to (attempt to) acquire this income, and most people reading HN will have already done so. But for a large swath of young people working low wage jobs, living at home because they can't afford rent, the notion of "freedom" might not seem that significant.

How much disposable income do you need to be free? Cheap car, cheap rent, every form of media ever for about $50 a month. You can do that easily on 30k. If you can't make 30k a year, you've got a limited skillset, it's not anyone else's fault. What's amazing for US millenials in particular is just how much we've got and how little we appreciate it.

You are extremely ignorant of the cost of living in the US if you think 30K is enough to live on.

Re: Why Are Millennials Wary of Freedom?

#16

Post by rhino369 » Mon, Oct 16, 2017, 9:50 PM UTC

imustbeevil wrote: post #8

ithilglin909 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being sick of bullshit is fine. Having the government regulate bull-shitting is a huge step towards tyranny.

What is one example of the government regulating free speech through law in the last 10 years?

AG-GAG laws

Re: Why Are Millennials Wary of Freedom?

#17

Post by danhak » Mon, Oct 16, 2017, 9:50 PM UTC

Brendinooo wrote: post #11

No one born in the mid-80s onward ever faced an outside existential threat like Hitler or the Soviets. It's not hard to imagine that people who only know relative freedom have a harder time appreciating that freedom. The grass is always greener elsewhere. Fear is a good answer here, though phrases like "helicopter parenting" and "victimhood culture" might bely some existing biases by the author. Perhaps the fear of t…

Very fascinating. You argue that millennials favor restrictions on hate speech because they have not experienced anything like Hitler. Yet Germany censors hate speech precisely because of that history.

Re: Why Are Millennials Wary of Freedom?

#18

Post by noobermin » Mon, Oct 16, 2017, 9:51 PM UTC

The author is a professor of psychology, but he then goes on to grossly misinterpret the study on the "contagiousness" of "victimhood", as he calls it. That sort of throws a bit of doubt on the rest of his article's use of citations.

Re: Why Are Millennials Wary of Freedom?

#19

Post by aaron-lebo » Mon, Oct 16, 2017, 9:53 PM UTC

noobermin wrote: post #15

aaron-lebo wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much disposable income do you need to be free? Cheap car, cheap rent, every form of media ever for about $50 a month. You can do that easily on 30k. If you can't make 30k a year, you've got a limited skillset, it's not anyone else's fault. What's amazing for US millenials in particular is just how much we've got and how little we appreciate it.

You are extremely ignorant of the cost of living in the US if you think 30K is enough to live on.

I've lived on that, so try again. Why do you believe that's crazy?

$500 apt

$150 car insurance

$100 utilities

$ 50 media (Netflix, Spotify, etc)

You're taking home about $1800 a month, so that still leaves another $1000 to fill out the rest (food, gasoline, etc). That's plenty of money. You aren't going to be making regular trips to Hawaii, but that's more than enough to do whatever you'd like.

Re: Why Are Millennials Wary of Freedom?

#20

Post by enord » Mon, Oct 16, 2017, 9:54 PM UTC

maxk42 wrote: post #2

In our increasingly litigious and regulated society they've never experienced it.

I disagree, I think we've had nothing but. In the developed world, we can't see the forest for the trees. Our gauges are centered elsewhere, and we can't even imagine ever running out.

But we do see what people are saying, and communicating and in general being unapologetic about. In fact it's all we ever see, is people lying through their teeth, pandering, proselytizing. Denying climate change, dog-whistling, cancelling firefly. We see it and hear it all day, year round. There's free and protected expression flying over our heads from every direction constantly, more than ever, and causing grief and harm that we see (well... perceive) and feel (or indulge). Still there is a perceived democratic deficit. It's a paradox, but we don't think of it as one, it's more like dissonance. Freedom in general and freedom of speech in particular is just not what it's trumped up to be.