Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Psilocybin for treatment-resistant depression: fMRI-measured brain mechanisms [pdf]

nature.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 114 posts

Re: Psilocybin for treatment-resistant depression: fMRI-measured brain mechanisms [pdf]

#101

Post by capsulehotel »

ComputerGuru wrote: post #4

Before self-medicating based on this combined with a self-diagnosis, consider that LSD and psilocybin have a nasty tendency of triggering latent psychological conditions if not taken in the appropriate dosage and in a controlled environment. [ref: http://www.nationaldrugstrategy.gov.au/internet/drugstrategy... ]

I have suffered from depression all my life and given that hash in combination with a hostile environment brought out some type of paranoid schizophrenia in me (auditory and possibly visual hallucinations), I'm very weary about irreversible mental damage as well and won't try it due to this.

Re: Psilocybin for treatment-resistant depression: fMRI-measured brain mechanisms [pdf]

#102

Post by DanBC »

benevol wrote: post #96
cheshire_cat wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd definitely advise anyone thinking about this to do their research but the risk doesn't seem to be as large as often suggested. There was a large US study that showed no correlation between lifetime psychedelic use and mental health problems. "[...] lifetime use of LSD, psilocybin, mescaline, or peyote, or past year use of LSD, was not associated with a higher rate of mental health problems." https://www.nature.co…

> the risk doesn't seem to be as large as often suggested The anti-depressant business model is genius: (a) They're sold at a very high price point, (b) they generally make you factually dependent for quite some time (and they're quite hard to quit). It's one of big pharma's preferred multi-billion cash cows. Now you know who's interested in spreading fear, doubt and uncertainty regarding cheap and effective competin…

None of this is true.

Anti-depressant meds are very cheap. This is one of the problems of meds, they're much cheaper than a course of talking therapy.

They don't cause dependence.

Most people don't have problems coming off SSRIs, SNRIs, NASAs etc.

> And this industry has the resources to effectively influence public discussion forums such as HN, Reddit, Slashdot, etc.

You might want to read any of the posts dang has mad about accusing people of astroturfing: https://hn.algolia.com/?query=by:dang%20astroturfing&sort=by...

That's also in the guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

> Don't accuse others of astroturfing or shillage. Email us and we'll look into it.

Re: Psilocybin for treatment-resistant depression: fMRI-measured brain mechanisms [pdf]

#103

Post by DanBC »

pizza wrote: post #24
discordance wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

N=19 is a very small sample size. I would be careful forming opinions based on this study.

even if it were e.g. sixteen or seventeen, for all of them to report lessened depression a week after is a fairly strong finding, at least enough to merit someone else attempting to reproduce the research. present depression medication barely works better than placebo

> present depression medication barely works better than placebo

That depends on quite a few things, and so far none of the psilocybin treatments are controlling for those. It's possible (likely, even) that if psilocybin is approved for treatment and used as often as other meds we'll see effectiveness plummet.

Re: Psilocybin for treatment-resistant depression: fMRI-measured brain mechanisms [pdf]

#104

Post by fapjacks »

capsulehotel wrote: post #101
ComputerGuru wrote: post #4

Before self-medicating based on this combined with a self-diagnosis, consider that LSD and psilocybin have a nasty tendency of triggering latent psychological conditions if not taken in the appropriate dosage and in a controlled environment. [ref: http://www.nationaldrugstrategy.gov.au/internet/drugstrategy... ]

I have suffered from depression all my life and given that hash in combination with a hostile environment brought out some type of paranoid schizophrenia in me (auditory and possibly visual hallucinations), I'm very weary about irreversible mental damage as well and won't try it due to this.

Or, you know, you had too much.

Re: Psilocybin for treatment-resistant depression: fMRI-measured brain mechanisms [pdf]

#105

Post by jamiewilson »

DanBC wrote: post #102
benevol wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the risk doesn't seem to be as large as often suggested The anti-depressant business model is genius: (a) They're sold at a very high price point, (b) they generally make you factually dependent for quite some time (and they're quite hard to quit). It's one of big pharma's preferred multi-billion cash cows. Now you know who's interested in spreading fear, doubt and uncertainty regarding cheap and effective competin…

None of this is true. Anti-depressant meds are very cheap. This is one of the problems of meds, they're much cheaper than a course of talking therapy. They don't cause dependence. Most people don't have problems coming off SSRIs, SNRIs, NASAs etc. > And this industry has the resources to effectively influence public discussion forums such as HN, Reddit, Slashdot, etc. You might want to read any of the posts dang has…

> They don't cause dependence.

You say that with such authority, but in my personal experience they can absolutely cause dependency. I've had long-lasting withdrawal effects from certain SSRIs that were both physically and mentally painful.

Re: Psilocybin for treatment-resistant depression: fMRI-measured brain mechanisms [pdf]

#107

Post by capsulehotel »

fapjacks wrote: post #104
capsulehotel wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have suffered from depression all my life and given that hash in combination with a hostile environment brought out some type of paranoid schizophrenia in me (auditory and possibly visual hallucinations), I'm very weary about irreversible mental damage as well and won't try it due to this.

Or, you know, you had too much.

Of hash? No. That happened a month or two after I took it.

Re: Psilocybin for treatment-resistant depression: fMRI-measured brain mechanisms [pdf]

#108

Post by anythingnonidin »

sannee wrote: post #95
diogenescynic wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It is absolutely shocking to me that research into psychedelics isn't swamped with funding. I find it more shocking that we as a society put up with it. All the pharmaceutical companies would much rather find synthetic alternatives they can patent/control. Follow the money, as always, and it makes perfect sense.

> I find it more shocking that we as a society put up with it. All the pharmaceutical companies would much rather find synthetic alternatives they can patent/control. Follow the money, as always, and it makes perfect sense. Why are not pharmaceutical companies pushing synthetic psychedelics then? The whole {P,T}IHKAL is full of them, it surely isn't a large problem to cook up another variant to patent.

Good question. My guess at first pass is that {P,T}IHKAL has explored the easy search space? But, I'm not very certain here.

Also, the Usona Institute had a job posting for a psychedelic chemist doing just that earlier this year. They are the group supporting the psilocybin phase 3 trials.

Re: Psilocybin for treatment-resistant depression: fMRI-measured brain mechanisms [pdf]

#109

Post by filoeleven »

beagle3 wrote: post #52
anythingnonidin wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe we already have an answer for this - which is that most of the benefits of psilocybin on depression (and most other things) rely on the patient being conscious so that they are able to have a 'mystical-type experience.' In almost all psilocybin studies, the effect is mediated by the degree to which the participant has a 'mystical-type experience.' I don't imagine this could be experienced while unconscious,…

> In almost all psilocybin studies, the effect is mediated by the degree to which the participant has a 'mystical-type experience.' > I don't imagine this could be experienced while unconscious, and so assuming that's correct, then it would be substantially less effective if someone was unconscious. It's correlation, but to determine causation one would have to undergo simultaneous mystical-inducing-quantity psilocyb…

Overnight hospital stay with an IV drip to administer the psilocybin after the patient falls asleep?

Re: Psilocybin for treatment-resistant depression: fMRI-measured brain mechanisms [pdf]

#110

Post by nylonstrung »

sdfin wrote: post #12
ComputerGuru wrote: post #4

Before self-medicating based on this combined with a self-diagnosis, consider that LSD and psilocybin have a nasty tendency of triggering latent psychological conditions if not taken in the appropriate dosage and in a controlled environment. [ref: http://www.nationaldrugstrategy.gov.au/internet/drugstrategy... ]

Is there proof that they have a tendency of triggering "latent" conditions, instead of generating the conditions? How can it be demonstated that conditions were latent before the use? Could it also be the case that people with potential mental illnesses is more likely to try drugs? Therefore being a correlational relationship instead of a causal one?

They definitely can potential prodromal cases that might not otherwise progress to a full blown case of mental illness and do so in a way that exacerbates it. Many cases of schizophrenia in the prodromal phase don't necessarily develop into a clinical case so it isn't simply isn't a matter of psychedelic use being net neutral since they would have gotten it anyways

Psychosis is literally damaging and the earlier and more violently one is subjected to it the worse their lifetime prognosis will be.

Post reply on HN