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Tesla fires hundreds from headquarters, factory

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211–220 of 268 posts

Re: Tesla fires hundreds from headquarters, factory

#211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The burden of proof is on the one making the claim

Homestly who cares? I considered this a community for “hackers” so either they’re at large willful ignorant of the industry they work on or misguided or outsiders and in all these cases nothing I could add would be useful to them neither engaging in a discussion would be for me.

And yet you are still here running your mouth.

I agree this community has problems, but if you want to fight that, posting apparently made-up claims and then refusing to back it with evidence is not the way to change anybody's mind.

Re: Tesla fires hundreds from headquarters, factory

#212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Tesla said the performance-based departures were not considered layoffs and not subject to state notifications. It also said the moves have generally boosted worker morale, as high-performing employees have been rewarded. Maybe I'm just paranoid but this part kind of smells to me.

One of my best momemts at bigco was a useless middle manager getting fired. Bad and toxic employees do kill morale for your team.

Sure. But then why keep them around for up to a year and fire them in bulk? The moment to get rid of a bad employee is as soon as you notice you have a bad employee.

The distribution of noticing problems should be pretty much random, so concentrating the firings in a once-a-year block means a high tolerance for keeping bad employees around. That, or they got rid of these people for reasons not really related to performance.

Re: Tesla fires hundreds from headquarters, factory

#213
post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I may be conservative, but I don't consider burnout to be on a "fine" side of things.

11.5 years in a fast paced company that makes very ambitious deadlines is an incredible stint for anyone IMO. I'm just saying burnout after that isn't surprising, no?

If they are regularly burning out key executives, then I'd say we should definitely be reading into that. That's a sign that the operation isn't sustainable in the long term, or at least will plateau at lower levels of performance than it otherwise could hit.

Re: Tesla fires hundreds from headquarters, factory

#214
post #49

I know someone who just got fired in this round at Tesla. His manager never communicated to him that he was a bad performer. He was not on a PIP or any performance plans. He was also working on Model 3. One fine morning his manager called him and said this would be his last day. He is a single income earner and was so shocked by this news that he is getting borderline depressed. They offered only 2 weeks of severance…

I worked at a bigco during a RIF (reduction in force), and underperforming /teams/ or even /sections/ had their management told, “your team underperformed — fire X number of lowest performers”. Then the manager was effectively forced to just pick people to let go. Shitty, but par for the course for many bigco places (outside tech), from what I have heard over the years.

I was consulting once for a large company when one of those came down. A manager I was working with really cared about his team, and it bothered him that he had to lay off one person for basically no good reason besides corporate politicking. He pushed against it for a while, but when they wouldn't relent, he laid himself off.

That didn't totally make sense, as they still had to find a manager for his team. But since the whole layoff was arbitrary, it didn't have to make sense. His whole team stayed.

I always thought it was a baller move. And looking at LinkedIn, he's had a solid career since, so it clearly didn't hurt him any.

Re: Tesla fires hundreds from headquarters, factory

#215
post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The downvotes are probably due to the fact that there are no contracts in the states. It is at will employment

LOL no wonder things are so fucked up around there. In rest of the civilized world unions and contracts keep work force safe. Here it is literally illegal to do what happened for the OP's friend (unless he had been employed for less than 12 months).

[deleted]

Re: Tesla fires hundreds from headquarters, factory

#216
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not for Germany only. The majority of EU contries have similar benefits guaranteed by the law.

I always wondered why laws are needed to require benefits. Seems like working for someone is a consensual choice that ought be regulated by the free market itself. Other than physical safety regulations, seems like the rest of it is government overreach. It’s also weird to me that a “contract” covers “workers” rather than a contact negotiated by each worker. Seems rather Marxist to me to consider workers as interchan…

Have you ever watched a movie where the writers treat a computer as a magical thing, a deus ex machina? It's like they have a hazy theoretical idea of what computers do, but no real practical experience. If you're like me, watching those movies is deeply irritating. Why didn't they take the time to learn about the history and practical details of what they're writing about?

I have a similar reaction to your comment here. It is as if you know exactly nothing about the long history of labor markets. We started out with very unregulated markets, and have moved away from that for very specific historical reasons. You could reasonably argue that any given protection was a step too far, or that a particular regulation no longer makes sense given some sort of change in technology. But just handwaving it away? All of it?

When you say you've "always wondered", I have a hard time believing it. There are many books on this topic. Books, articles, podcasts, movies, blogs, everything. You can learn about the history of labor markets, the theory of it, the present-day reality. Your comment shows no sign of having done the slightest work to understand the topic.

Even if you are not inclined to study history, just try thinking about it as an engineer. Markets aren't magic. They are a specific technology for solving specific economic problems. There are conditions under which they work well, and conditions where they work poorly, sometimes so poorly as to fail. Like any other technology, they come in a variety of specific forms depending on need. They need to be properly installed and maintained if they are to serve the purpose they were created for.

Please go and learn something about this.

Re: Tesla fires hundreds from headquarters, factory

#217
post #49

I know someone who just got fired in this round at Tesla. His manager never communicated to him that he was a bad performer. He was not on a PIP or any performance plans. He was also working on Model 3. One fine morning his manager called him and said this would be his last day. He is a single income earner and was so shocked by this news that he is getting borderline depressed. They offered only 2 weeks of severance…

From the article, some folks are claiming that the firings were around attempts at organizing a union:

> Openly pro-union workers were among those fired this week. Some believe they were targeted.

Re: Tesla fires hundreds from headquarters, factory

#218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are an employee in the States, that is. There’s a mandatory three-month notice period in Sweden, so that the person who is fired (or sho leaves) has the time to find a new job

That three month notice period when leaving is a hassle for employees, being a lame duck is no fun.

Right. Being fired on the spot is much more fun.

Re: Tesla fires hundreds from headquarters, factory

#219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Better than being a broke duck.

Well, this is the case where you get a new job, so that doesn't apply.

The three-month notice period is mandatory, because:

- if the employee leaves, it benefits the business:

-- the employee has the time to hand over their work

-- the employer has time to look for and find a replacement, or prepare for work without the employee

- if the employee is fired, it benefits the employee:

-- they have the time to look for a new job

-- they continue working, receiving salary, and don't have to worry about bills, rent etc.

In both cases the employer and the employee can agree on the actual time when the employee quits: it could be the next day, or next week, or after three months, at the end of the notice period.

Re: Tesla fires hundreds from headquarters, factory

#220
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it helps, he didn't really found PayPal or have much of anything to do with it one way or the other. He founded X.com, which merged with PayPal. He left after not doing much beyond arguing with Max Levchin about Windows vs FreeBSD. IIRC. Most people considered him kind of a joke before Tesla and SpaceX were mainstream successes. He's done amazing things with that PayPal money though. I bet a few dozen people on HN…

From Wikipedia, he was the CEO after the merger who decided to shut down online banking and focus solely on PayPal. It sounds like he had a lot to do with it.

It wasn't even a choice. X.com was a failure and PayPal was taking off. Ultimately, this kind of decision is up to the board anyway, not the CEO.
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