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Tesla fires hundreds from headquarters, factory

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Re: Tesla fires hundreds from headquarters, factory

#111

Post by koevet »

walterbell wrote: post #86
jwdunne wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think firing without giving warnings and opportunity to improve is sick. These people don't even know they were doing badly. I can't tell if they've been told where they screwed up. These people could be spending a lot of time figuring out what went wrong when everything seemed to be going fine. They don't deserve that, regardless of performance. They are people, they have lives and it wasn't anything like gross mi…

Some countries have laws requiring notice and time for a performance improvement period, before final termination of employment.

Yes, in Switzerland, for instance, a company is required to offer "job relocation" services for employees that have been working for the company for some years (I'm not sure how many exactly). These services (re-teach how to write a CV, how to prepare yourself for an interview, etc.) cost between 10K and 14K CHF per employee.

Re: Tesla fires hundreds from headquarters, factory

#112

Post by ThomPete »

Steeeve wrote: post #37

I'm not a fan of this style of management at all. I won't knowingly go to work for a company that behaves in this manner. I've read that Netflix does it, and I've seen inferences that they acquired the practice from Disney. If you have a low performing employee that you want to get rid of, fine. Arbitrarily destroying the lives of a percentage of your workforce in an annual purge is not OK. People always seem to put…

It's the Jack Welsh management style.

https://www.manager-tools.com/forums/jack-welchs-20-70-10

Re: Tesla fires hundreds from headquarters, factory

#113

Post by zeroxfe »

throwawayknecht wrote: post #96
sjwright wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is an "annual purge" of low performing employees any different ethically to a day-to-day purge of low performing employees? The only difference is HR strategy. Perhaps they want to signal to the labor market that they're not shy about ridding themselves of second-rate colleagues? I don't like working with second-rate colleagues; it certainly makes me want to work for Tesla.

How would it be different if a hospital murdered X% of their worst-prognosis patients every January 1st, rather than letting X% die over the course of the year regardless of interventions?

This is a ridiculous analogy -- Hospital patients (for the most part) don't have control over their diseases, employees (for the most part) have control over their performance.

(Also, patients are customers of the hospital -- you should be comparing this to hospitals firing their worst doctors every year, which IMO, would be fantastic.)

Re: Tesla fires hundreds from headquarters, factory

#114

Post by CrLf »

The Romans called this style of management "decimation." It's unfortunate that it's still fashionable in the 21st century.

Also, this sounds straight out of the Ministry of Peace:

"It also said the moves have generally boosted worker morale"

Re: Tesla fires hundreds from headquarters, factory

#115

Post by leereeves »

koevet wrote: post #109
leereeves wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> [Musk] also joked to employees they would be going through “production hell” to meet demand for the new car. It sounds like taking sick days, vacation days, and going home at 5pm is exactly what Musk doesn't want from employees. Germans are fortunate to have those benefits guaranteed by law (and culture).

This is not for Germany only. The majority of EU contries have similar benefits guaranteed by the law.

The comment I replied to, however, was about Germany.

Re: Tesla fires hundreds from headquarters, factory

#116

Post by brianwawok »

classybull wrote: post #108
kryptiskt wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That three month notice period when leaving is a hassle for employees, being a lame duck is no fun.

Better than being a broke duck.

If you save some of your paycheck no need to be broke

Re: Tesla fires hundreds from headquarters, factory

#117

Post by brianwawok »

emodendroket wrote: post #41
wpietri wrote: post #29

Do other companies do this? Unless this is GE-style force ranking, I've never heard of it. If somebody isn't performing well, I have no idea why I'd wait up to a year to deal with it. And it seems terrible for morale (and PR) to have a regular event where a bunch of people will be let go in one block.

> Tesla said the performance-based departures were not considered layoffs and not subject to state notifications. It also said the moves have generally boosted worker morale, as high-performing employees have been rewarded. Maybe I'm just paranoid but this part kind of smells to me.

One of my best momemts at bigco was a useless middle manager getting fired. Bad and toxic employees do kill morale for your team.

Re: Tesla fires hundreds from headquarters, factory

#118

Post by sjwright »

throwawayknecht wrote: post #96
sjwright wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is an "annual purge" of low performing employees any different ethically to a day-to-day purge of low performing employees? The only difference is HR strategy. Perhaps they want to signal to the labor market that they're not shy about ridding themselves of second-rate colleagues? I don't like working with second-rate colleagues; it certainly makes me want to work for Tesla.

How would it be different if a hospital murdered X% of their worst-prognosis patients every January 1st, rather than letting X% die over the course of the year regardless of interventions?

An invalid (and thoroughly disgusting) analogy. You are conflating murder and death in a rather untidy way, and hoping that the disgust for the analogy taints that which we're making an analogy about.

If you like the theme of murder: How would it be different if a prison, rather than executing death row inmates on the first day they were legally permitted, instead delayed their executions so they could bundle them up into annual batches?

Re: Tesla fires hundreds from headquarters, factory

#119

Post by colechristensen »

flexie wrote: post #99
Steeeve wrote: post #37

I'm not a fan of this style of management at all. I won't knowingly go to work for a company that behaves in this manner. I've read that Netflix does it, and I've seen inferences that they acquired the practice from Disney. If you have a low performing employee that you want to get rid of, fine. Arbitrarily destroying the lives of a percentage of your workforce in an annual purge is not OK. People always seem to put…

Any company, whether it's our pet tech company or a boring bank, will have to let go of what they believe is under performing staff at some point. Some companies manage to do little by little so no-one notices, some do it in bulk once a year and it becomes news. I'm not sure what is better for the employees but often middle managers tend to keep their staff until forced by top management to let someone go. As for "de…

When you mass fire people like this, it can only seem like your plan was to fire a large set of people and you made it a goal to find them. You're quite likely to find people to fire that are down on their luck for some reason or another.

You're also quite likely to alienate or scare a sizable portion of your workforce. Anxiety about getting fired will drive a lot of people to perform worse. Conversely, a feeling that your company will support you during rough times can make those rough times shorter and help productivity.

It's also about diversity. Diversity of life situations, diversity of mental health status, diversity of motivations, etc. etc.

Re: Tesla fires hundreds from headquarters, factory

#120

Post by mschuster91 »

spatulon wrote: post #110
throwingerman wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And it is exactly this style of management that is causing problems at the German automation plant he aquired (see my comment in the duplicate thread). It is probably a reason why production of the Model 3 is behind -- the company he acquired builds the factory robots needed for advanced automation. Smart move to acquire it then and it explains why the timing is now off. You can't run a German plant like an American…

Presumably one bit of Tesla culture they can't bring to Germany is firing low performers. I worked for a German company for over a decade. I don't know if it was due to their culture or their laws, but I never saw anyone get fired for poor performance (except for failing the initial 6-month probation after joining). And it's not like we didn't have low performers — once I got into management it became quite clear tha…

> And it's not like we didn't have low performers — once I got into management it became quite clear that there were a handful of people who were borderline useless, but it was just accepted that they were employees, that the company should look after them just the same, and find work for them to do.

In addition, courts will be siding with the employee in lots of cases, and when the company has a Betriebsrat (workers council) and the Betriebsrat sides with the employee it is next to impossible to get someone fired without serious consequences in court.

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