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Google commits $1B in grants to train U.S. workers for high-tech jobs

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Re: Google commits $1B in grants to train U.S. workers for high-tech jobs

#361

Post by xfer »

thatonechad wrote: post #282
xfer wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not sure, how "skills" would be helpful in long term. People need to develop a good understanding and ideas on Computer science, not learn a particular software/language or whatever. As, there is no guarantee that it will even be alive by the time you leave university/your potential employer would be looking for that particular "skill".

Wait what? If you went to school today and learned java i bet in 4 years java is still around. I bet 4 years C# still around. and I bet in 4 year C++ is still around. What kind of world are you living in? You are saying that taking 60 hours of non tech related classes are more beneficial than taking that many hours dedicated to actually putting those skills to work? Also you realize that learning a programming langua…

Learning a programming language doesn't translate into other language, but the principle of programming in general does.

In another language you may not be using classes, objects heavily, so learning about how to make class factories mean very little. What matters is, through this you might learn about good abstractions and its power, and that's what is important.

And that is what universities should be teaching with the use of any language/tool. I am not sure what you mean "non-tech" class, i am pretty sure there aren't any such things in CS programs. If you dedicate yourself to one particular tool, you will have a very narrow view of software development. Don't need to go to university, you can learn it by yourself and save both time and money.

Re: Google commits $1B in grants to train U.S. workers for high-tech jobs

#362

Post by stale2002 »

jimmaswell wrote: post #354
stale2002 wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The status quo is untenable??? I am not sure what world you live in, but the world that I live in is one where software engineering salaries and jobs have continued to increase over the last 5, despite all these bootcamp grads and the large increase in CS majors.

The tech labor shortage seems to me to be essentially a fabrication invented by tech companies to encourage further oversaturation. I just cannot believe jobs are growing faster than the workforce when my experience has been this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15461080 The status quo is untenable because it's a bubble. There are far too many junior programmers.

Hmm, I am a couple years out of college and therefore fit the definition of "senior developer", so perhaps you are right, and I just haven't noticed the effects yet.

But right now, things are really really good for developers who only have a couple years of experience. But perhaps that is going to change as all these junior devs become senior.

Re: Google commits $1B in grants to train U.S. workers for high-tech jobs

#363

Post by losteric »

amigoingtodie wrote: post #338
losteric wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Direct vs indirect utility. Janitors are directly beneficial to a small number of people. The typical Google engineering is indirectly and marginally beneficial to millions.

Is that what we tell ourselves, "I'm making a difference"?

It might not be positive, but we are making a difference

Re: Google commits $1B in grants to train U.S. workers for high-tech jobs

#364

Post by samfisher83 »

shados wrote: post #299
samfisher83 wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are getting tons of apps from top schools like harvard, stanford, etc. I don't think they will have any problem hiring people. Maybe this would help some small company a lot more that can't afford pay google salaries. Also If you believe the Pareto principle most of people at google probably aren't that important to their successes.

They actually do have problems hiring enough. They get tons of applications, but the vast majority are not worth looking at. The people from top schools are in high demand, and Google no longer has monopoly on cool tech workspaces with free lunches and random expensive perks. They have plenty of openings and they harass qualified people trying to poach them just as hard as everyone else. And since they actually DO ha…

It seems the only stories you hear of them are interviewing people and then ghosting them. If they actually cared about hiring people you figure at least they would treat their candidates better. In my experience even amazon has been more on the ball with the recruiting process.

Re: Google commits $1B in grants to train U.S. workers for high-tech jobs

#366

Post by lkbm »

s73ver_ wrote: post #195
WalterBright wrote: post #155

It's never been easier to get training in all sorts of things, for free. For example, I'm currently taking MIT's 6.002 electronics course because I never learned circuit analysis properly. It's on youtube, it's free, I watch it anytime. There's the Khan Academy, too.

Yeah, but there's no certificate. And, despite what everyone wants to believe, most employers still want that certificate or degree. They're not gonna accept "I watched a bunch of videos on YouTube" as an alternative.

My company seems happy to hire qualified college dropouts. A college diploma is a signal that you've learned something, but to be honest, it's not a very strong signal. Some of our most talented engineers didn't graduate college, or didn't major in CS, and I know several CS majors who aren't very competent at all. (I might be one of them--I'd say I was when I first graduated.

Big, mature bureaucracies want formal signals. Small/young businesses and startups care about competence. Google is very large, but I suspect still manages to act "young" in many respects.

Re: Google commits $1B in grants to train U.S. workers for high-tech jobs

#367

Post by shados »

samfisher83 wrote: post #364
shados wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They actually do have problems hiring enough. They get tons of applications, but the vast majority are not worth looking at. The people from top schools are in high demand, and Google no longer has monopoly on cool tech workspaces with free lunches and random expensive perks. They have plenty of openings and they harass qualified people trying to poach them just as hard as everyone else. And since they actually DO ha…

It seems the only stories you hear of them are interviewing people and then ghosting them. If they actually cared about hiring people you figure at least they would treat their candidates better. In my experience even amazon has been more on the ball with the recruiting process.

I'm not particularly fond of Google or the way they interview, but I've lived just a few blocks from their Cambridge office (so almost every engineer I know around here has interviewed there at one point or another).

Aside for their criterias and interview questions which I find absurd (but that's subjective, I know a bunch of people who think they're fine), I haven't heard much that was really wrong with it aside for obviously underqualified candidates being brought in and then leaving pissed off after bombing it.

The reality is that in this industry right now, unless what you're doing is little webapps with REST apis that store/retrieve data and not much else, hiring people is hard. All the somewhat large companies have 100+ openings at any given time and the majority of candidates are code monkeys. My current employer is doing decently and our reputation seems to allow us to get a steady stream of above average people applying, but there's still so many openings.

Only so much you can do.

Re: Google commits $1B in grants to train U.S. workers for high-tech jobs

#368

Post by forapurpose »

thatonechad wrote: post #348
forapurpose wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, education teaches you things, important things, that likely you will not know otherwise. For example, I studied Chinese history and culture with some of the world's leading experts; I'm confident that I know much more about it than people who spent the same time learning Java. And because I know those things, I have a much better understanding of everything I read about China and also about my own country's hist…

I'm sorry but reason isnt taught in college its taught with experience. I know many people who have reason, empathy, and everything else without having to be taught. It's part of your upbringing not taught in college. I believe most people would benefit from learning the skills they need for a job rather than learning about China because rarely will a tech job require your vast knowledge of Chinese history. They want…

> reason isnt taught in college its taught with experience

I know I learned an awful lot about reason in college, and many others I know did too; sorry you missed out! If you read your Facebook feed and I study the great thinkers of history, guided by modern-day experts, I'm very confident I'll be far ahead. Unless you think you can come up with all that on your own - who needs Descartes or Hannah Arendt, apparently; anyone can figure it out? To disparage all that knowledge and learning is easy to say but very hard to support. To say those people knew and said nothing valuable seems like willful ignorance.

> colleges are there to produce for jobs

Says who? I disagree strongly. I know the parent's claim is fashionable now, but that certain hasn't been true for most of history. The liberal arts, which are not vocational, long (always?) have been dominant - that wasn't for job skills.

I'll add that few businesses value actual job skills learned in college or grad school. A new lawyer or engineer right out of school knows nothing, in many ways, and needs to be trained in real-world job skills by their employer.

Re: Google commits $1B in grants to train U.S. workers for high-tech jobs

#369

Post by baursak »

WalterBright wrote: post #360
s73ver_ wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if I didn't have the money to buy that stock? Also, the Walton kids most assuredly got something for nothing.

> And if I didn't have the money to buy that stock? But you do. > the Walton kids most assuredly got something for nothing. 85% of American millionaires are self-made. See "The Millionaire Next Door" by Stanley.

https://jacobinmag.com/2017/10/inheritance-wealthy-one-perce...

Re: Google commits $1B in grants to train U.S. workers for high-tech jobs

#370

Post by thewhitetulip »

ucaetano wrote: post #331
thewhitetulip wrote: post #324

But nobody wants to address the mounting student loan problem!! Degrees don't come for free, technical graduates don't come for free, students have to go to college for that and in US you need a LOT of money for that. This is the chicken and egg problem where nobody wants to address the real problem an everyone is going around giving superficial solutions.

Student loans are only a problem to students doing one or more degrees in low-2nd and 3rd tier schools with few job market prospects. The rate of student loan defaults is actually inversely proportional to the amount owed.

I don't say that student loans aren't getting refunded, I am saying that you need to take a loan to study. That's the problem.
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