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Google commits $1B in grants to train U.S. workers for high-tech jobs

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Re: Google commits $1B in grants to train U.S. workers for high-tech jobs

#281

Post by ralmidani »

thatonechad wrote: post #68

Universities need to start focusing on skills instead of general education. Imagine the amount of skills you could learn if you didn't have to take 60 hours of nonsense credits and focus on skills you require. Programming / Networking / Hardware need a new type of University that is similar to Trade colleges but focus primarily on the skills and nothing more. The first 1-2 years could focus on the foundations while t…

I know this is a cliche, but universities (are supposed to) teach you critical thinking as well as social and life skills, not just train you for a specific vocation.

Watering down university education is not necessary. If someone wants to focus just on tech skills, they can go to a boot camp. Expanding boot camps so they become multi-year experiences may be a good idea, but they should not be called universities.

Re: Google commits $1B in grants to train U.S. workers for high-tech jobs

#282

Post by thatonechad »

xfer wrote: post #192
thatonechad wrote: post #68

Universities need to start focusing on skills instead of general education. Imagine the amount of skills you could learn if you didn't have to take 60 hours of nonsense credits and focus on skills you require. Programming / Networking / Hardware need a new type of University that is similar to Trade colleges but focus primarily on the skills and nothing more. The first 1-2 years could focus on the foundations while t…

I am not sure, how "skills" would be helpful in long term. People need to develop a good understanding and ideas on Computer science, not learn a particular software/language or whatever. As, there is no guarantee that it will even be alive by the time you leave university/your potential employer would be looking for that particular "skill".

Wait what? If you went to school today and learned java i bet in 4 years java is still around. I bet 4 years C# still around. and I bet in 4 year C++ is still around. What kind of world are you living in? You are saying that taking 60 hours of non tech related classes are more beneficial than taking that many hours dedicated to actually putting those skills to work?

Also you realize that learning a programming language can translate into other programming languages right?

Re: Google commits $1B in grants to train U.S. workers for high-tech jobs

#283

Post by FullMtlAlcoholc »

thatonechad wrote: post #68

Universities need to start focusing on skills instead of general education. Imagine the amount of skills you could learn if you didn't have to take 60 hours of nonsense credits and focus on skills you require. Programming / Networking / Hardware need a new type of University that is similar to Trade colleges but focus primarily on the skills and nothing more. The first 1-2 years could focus on the foundations while t…

Univerisities should remain centers of education and the pursuit of knowledge.

Training people for jobs is the responsibility of vocational schools and corporate training .

Re: Google commits $1B in grants to train U.S. workers for high-tech jobs

#284

Post by nbanks »

fraserharris wrote: post #230
brudgers wrote: post #165

I wonder how long it would take for Google to spend an extra $1 Billion by bringing janitorial, food service, and other non-technical jobs in-house instead of contracting it out to the lowest bidder. To put it in perspective, $1 Billion is 10,000 times $100,000. Or 1000 $100,000/year jobs for ten years before discounting for the time value of money. Instead, big chunks of the money will get siphoned off to administra…

They aren't doing this for charity - they are doing it to ensure a steady supply of technical hires. Technical jobs are profit centers; non-technical contracted services are cost centers.

Even if google doesn't hire most of the people who graduate, having more people who can do tech jobs could help increase the supply and stop salaries from inflating more.

Re: Google commits $1B in grants to train U.S. workers for high-tech jobs

#285

Post by thatonechad »

forapurpose wrote: post #248
thatonechad wrote: post #68

Universities need to start focusing on skills instead of general education. Imagine the amount of skills you could learn if you didn't have to take 60 hours of nonsense credits and focus on skills you require. Programming / Networking / Hardware need a new type of University that is similar to Trade colleges but focus primarily on the skills and nothing more. The first 1-2 years could focus on the foundations while t…

> nonsense credits The assumption here is that education is nonsense. I think the skills are far less valuable: Education teaches you about the world you have to live in, in business, and as a citizen, a parent, a consumer, etc., by exposing you to leading people and ideas from around the world and throughout history. It teaches you to reason, by exposing you to the great thinkers now and in history. Reading blogs on…

Seriously? So how does everyone else that go to technical trade school or don't go to college at all learn about the real world? Are you seriously trying to say that college teaches you about the real world. Thanks for the laugh.

Re: Google commits $1B in grants to train U.S. workers for high-tech jobs

#286

Post by blackguardx »

aikinai wrote: post #276
blackguardx wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the job training was pretty standard in the tech industry in the past. I worked with a guy at an HP (oldest high-tech co. in CA) spinoff that was the head embedded software architect and worked his way up from the machine shop in the '70s. He started out manning a drill press and learned to program when they started using NC (numeric control) machine tools. Do you think Google lets anyone to work their way up from…

Yes, actually Google does have programs to let people work their way up on the inside. Barista is a bit extreme and not really internal since they're vendors, but admins, help desk, etc. do have avenues to move into other roles.

That's good to hear. Carly Fiorina worked her way up from Admin to CEO. Though, that is a bad example because it didn't work work out too well for HP.

I don't think being a barista is much different than my example, though. Maybe they should make them internal hires.

Re: Google commits $1B in grants to train U.S. workers for high-tech jobs

#287

Post by stevenwoo »

SapphireSun wrote: post #41
cm2187 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

High labor cost just because of skill shortage may be gratifying and lucrative for the happy few but is not an efficient allocation of resources for the wider society. Increasing the skill supply is the right thing to do. Replace "developer" with any other profession to convince yourself.

You'd think that, but then you'd remember that if the population isn't making money capitalism doesn't work. People need money to buy things. The big picture is that labor is being defeated everywhere and money is accruing at the top. The whole system will break down if something isn't done.

I remember talking with a friend of mine in the 90's about this and he thought we would have a revolution in this country if things didn't change vis a vis inequality. What's happening so far is the rats at the bottom of the ship are blaming the slightly different rats in the same situation for making the problem worse.

Re: Google commits $1B in grants to train U.S. workers for high-tech jobs

#288

Post by forapurpose »

thatonechad wrote: post #285
forapurpose wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> nonsense credits The assumption here is that education is nonsense. I think the skills are far less valuable: Education teaches you about the world you have to live in, in business, and as a citizen, a parent, a consumer, etc., by exposing you to leading people and ideas from around the world and throughout history. It teaches you to reason, by exposing you to the great thinkers now and in history. Reading blogs on…

Seriously? So how does everyone else that go to technical trade school or don't go to college at all learn about the real world? Are you seriously trying to say that college teaches you about the real world. Thanks for the laugh.

Yes, education teaches you things, important things, that likely you will not know otherwise. For example, I studied Chinese history and culture with some of the world's leading experts; I'm confident that I know much more about it than people who spent the same time learning Java. And because I know those things, I have a much better understanding of everything I read about China and also about my own country's history and culture, because I can see it context of what people in other countries do.

Another thing education teaches you is how to reason effectively, the most important skill of all: Reason is what separates people from animals, the Enlightenment from the Dark Ages, science from superstition, rationality from hokum. And almost the first thing you learn is intellectual humility: I am wrong about so much, and others know so much that I don't and have such different experience, that it's foolish to dismiss them. You learn we are each prisoners of our own narrow perspectives and experiences, and that the more challenging another point of view is, the more likely it is to be worth listening to. So when you say you "laugh" at my ideas, I think you should have spent less time on Java and more on learning.

Re: Google commits $1B in grants to train U.S. workers for high-tech jobs

#289

Post by orangecat »

s73ver_ wrote: post #182
sounds wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, more bluntly: Google should pay high salaries. The market will supply the skilled workers when the salaries are high enough to attract more workers. (Google does pay high salaries. If they want more skilled workers, raising their salaries is the most efficient way to get that outcome.)

Well, it's more than just pure salary. I'm sure if they changed things so that one did not have to work crazy hours while there, they could get away with paying less.

You don't have to work crazy hours at Google. At least at the teams I was on; there were occasional reports of lousy conditions in some groups (e.g. Nest), but they were very much the exception.

Re: Google commits $1B in grants to train U.S. workers for high-tech jobs

#290

Post by joshuamorton »

Apocryphon wrote: post #136
arjie wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sincerely cannot tell if you're being sarcastic or not. The first order of business of any tech union will be to stall the H1-B program and then follow that up with strict gatekeeping rules. Just read HN, a supposedly enlightened class of programmers. It's all short term protectionism from people insecure of their ability.

Surely an industry that prides itself on thinking different can figure out new and innovative solutions to seemingly impossible problems.

I think the point is that they don't want to.
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