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Silicon Valley Is Not Your Friend

nytimes.com

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Re: Silicon Valley Is Not Your Friend

#11

Post by anonmoose123 »

dragontamer wrote: post #3

Okay, there are a lot of ills in Silicon Valley / Tech world, but this article... frankly speaking... is a load of anti-corporate rage. I've read about halfway through this article, and it seems like the biggest "sin" of Silicon Valley, according to this article, is their acceptance of advertisements (Google / Facebook Mobile) and possibly Amazon's dominance of the online marketplace? Facebook's "sin" of allowing Rus…

Compare that to all the problems the NYT is having retaining funding.

Now look at what articles NYT has been running about YouTube lately.

Spotting similarities?

Re: Silicon Valley Is Not Your Friend

#12

Post by adventured »

hprotagonist wrote: post #2

I grew up reading 2600 and the jargon file and early slashdot, and hanging out on freenode and usenet, so i've been indoctrinated in this way of thinking this way for 20 years. In my experience, the people who built the net are among its sharpest and most vocal critics, and there's some cause for that. I'm not sure what the implications of everyone else thinking this way will be.

In a word, regulation.

Tech has been mostly hands-off politically, an oasis of limited targeted regulation, over the post WW2 era. While the rest of the US economy has practically been regulated to death.

Bloomberg had an opinion piece a few days ago, noting how several of the tech giants (eg Microsoft, Apple, Google, Facebook, Oracle, Cisco) had higher profit margins than the S&P 500 average and argued that it was due to lack of regulation (something akin to saying we must regulate tech to make everything fair with the rest of the over-regulated economy). Such arguments in the main-stream media are increasingly becoming a daily occurrence.

Re: Silicon Valley Is Not Your Friend

#13

Post by forgottenpass »

dragontamer wrote: post #3

Okay, there are a lot of ills in Silicon Valley / Tech world, but this article... frankly speaking... is a load of anti-corporate rage. I've read about halfway through this article, and it seems like the biggest "sin" of Silicon Valley, according to this article, is their acceptance of advertisements (Google / Facebook Mobile) and possibly Amazon's dominance of the online marketplace? Facebook's "sin" of allowing Rus…

Facebook's "sin" of allowing Russian-linked advertisements which spread propaganda to the US election is probably the worst thing mentioned.

I don't really care about Ruskie ads, but if it makes society start to notice that these platforms can be used against us, then they might start seeing the more insidious natures of the platforms too.

But in the great scheme of things (with Facebook cooperating with proper authorities) that's a moot issue since Zuckerberg seems to be "on our side" there.

Isn't the very idea that it matters where Zuckerberg's allegiances lie terrifying?

Additionally, the notion that "proper authorities" are a response to propaganda would be comical if it wasn't treated so seriously.

Re: Silicon Valley Is Not Your Friend

#14

Post by s_kilk »

dragontamer wrote: post #3

Okay, there are a lot of ills in Silicon Valley / Tech world, but this article... frankly speaking... is a load of anti-corporate rage. I've read about halfway through this article, and it seems like the biggest "sin" of Silicon Valley, according to this article, is their acceptance of advertisements (Google / Facebook Mobile) and possibly Amazon's dominance of the online marketplace? Facebook's "sin" of allowing Rus…

No, the "sin" is in Valley programmers broad refusal to acknowledge the social impacts of their work, their refusal to believe that technology, which is inseparable from the context it is used in, could possibly have any negative impact on that context, and the people who use it.

Even in 2017 we still have engineers crowing about how technology is value neutral, it's a-political, and how any attempt to claim otherwise is putting artificial restraint on something they see as pure and detached from society.

It's an entirely bullshit mode of thinking which needs to be challenged in the here-and-now if we're to have any hope of a bright future, rather than the immiserated neo-feudal hellscape we're currently heading towards.

Re: Silicon Valley Is Not Your Friend

#15

Post by alexasmyths »

baron816 wrote: post #8

I'm no fan of Facebook, but I don't get why they're to blame for Russia's meddling in the election. It's hard to believe that they were aware of what was going on and allowed it to continue because they were making money off of it. The money they were getting was a pittance, all things considered.

The press swings memes in a pendulum.

They hype, they hate, they hype, they hate.

Right now, it seems their getting on finger wagging band wagon.

When in 'hype' mode - the littlest, most innocuous thing is 'game changing'.

When in 'hate mode' - the littlest, most incidental act is 'an example of the entire failure of the Valley'.

Hype: Google Glasses 'will change how we interact as people'

Hate: 'An Uber rider refused to accept seeing/helper dog = Silicon Valley is Evil'

Re: Silicon Valley Is Not Your Friend

#17

Post by JumpCrisscross »

dragontamer wrote: post #3

Okay, there are a lot of ills in Silicon Valley / Tech world, but this article... frankly speaking... is a load of anti-corporate rage. I've read about halfway through this article, and it seems like the biggest "sin" of Silicon Valley, according to this article, is their acceptance of advertisements (Google / Facebook Mobile) and possibly Amazon's dominance of the online marketplace? Facebook's "sin" of allowing Rus…

> It seems like newspapers are finding it "in vogue" to hate on Silicon Valley, even if they barely understand the subject

This attitude reminds me of how bankers talked right before the crisis. I don’t intend to call you out specifically. It’s a common refrain in tech. But a shift has happened and people are pissed because an industry is deciding to rationalise away responsibility for bad things that happened as a result of its products. That’s driving the perception, probably warranted, that we have lost our ability to self-regulate.

Re: Silicon Valley Is Not Your Friend

#18

Post by blahman2 »

More like "Media is not your friend"

"Neither Mr. Weizenbaum nor Mr. McCarthy mentioned, though it was hard to miss, that this ascendant generation were nearly all white men with a strong preference for people just like themselves."

Ok,this, and a few other tropes have become so prevalent in media today that it is starting to be annoying.

I genuinely believe the people using these tropes (race, gender, inequality, evil tech) are not interested in remedying any societal ills, but in getting more attention and views on their articles.

Even the NYT reads like BuzzFeed now

Re: Silicon Valley Is Not Your Friend

#19

Post by dragontamer »

s_kilk wrote: post #14
dragontamer wrote: post #3

Okay, there are a lot of ills in Silicon Valley / Tech world, but this article... frankly speaking... is a load of anti-corporate rage. I've read about halfway through this article, and it seems like the biggest "sin" of Silicon Valley, according to this article, is their acceptance of advertisements (Google / Facebook Mobile) and possibly Amazon's dominance of the online marketplace? Facebook's "sin" of allowing Rus…

No, the "sin" is in Valley programmers broad refusal to acknowledge the social impacts of their work, their refusal to believe that technology, which is inseparable from the context it is used in, could possibly have any negative impact on that context, and the people who use it. Even in 2017 we still have engineers crowing about how technology is value neutral, it's a-political, and how any attempt to claim otherwis…

I can agree that what you bring up is an issue.

But your sentiment doesn't occur anywhere in the first 15 paragraphs of the article. In effect, your two sentences make a better argument than 15+ paragraphs from the article.

I'm criticizing the ARTICLE, not necessarily the viewpoint. The article is poorly written in my opinion.

Re: Silicon Valley Is Not Your Friend

#20

Post by vog »

KirinDave wrote: post #9
wil421 wrote: post #4

If you aren’t paying for the service then the company is certainly not your friend. Even when you paying I would still be cautious. In the beginning, FB was a great way to connect and the community seemed more friendly and united. Now it’s used as a political divider and a cesspool of mis-information. NextDoor has been a positive experience for me but I can see it going they way of FB. Depends on your neighbors I gue…

Why is it that folks think that paying for a product somehow fixes this? You can pay up front for the product and still be part of the product. Look at the game Overwatch, which is exactly the free to play model of gaming (where 20% of the player base is 80% of the revenue) with an upfront fee! People who don't spend lots on loot boxes are there for to provide entertainment and interactivity to those who do. And unli…

Payment is not sufficient, but necessary.

Without payment, they either make loss or have ads, so of course your are the product.

With payment, they can afford to have strong privacy rules and have others check their system integrity. But they'll only do so if there's demand for sanity.

So, pay for it and demand sanity.

Oh, and payment doesn't necessarily mean a "pay per use" that makes user surveillance necessary. For some services and media, donations and/or flat rates work quite well.

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