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Hyperloop One Becomes ‘Virgin Hyperloop One’

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Re: Hyperloop One Becomes ‘Virgin Hyperloop One’

#341
post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How could the Hyperloop not require the same expropriations? A giant tube isn't any smaller than a train track. Is it the fact that it's elevated? Rail can be elevated. Yes, rail is heavy, but so are giant evacuated steel tubes.

Run it down the center of the freeway? Having stations for trains in the middle of freeways isn't great for pedestrians, but might be fine for long distance transport such as hyperloop.

HSR is supposed to be log distance transport. It's I meant to solve the exact same problems as Hyperloop, but by powerful engines and streamlined railcars instead of evacuated tubes.

Again, why not put HSR tracks in the same place you'd put a Hyperloop track? Put the station in the same place. The tubes aren't smaller or lighter.

Re: Hyperloop One Becomes ‘Virgin Hyperloop One’

#342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, there we go. I'm genuinely surprised it was anything other than fairly obvious. Perhaps his reputation's different away from the UK?

How dare you be clever... don't you know that if you make the very very smart people and or the mods feel less smart you will get smacked down on HN? Or maybe it was your foolish statements of a personal nature cause that's not scientifically, rigorously provable, cause you know, personal experiences are invalid! Why... well the very very smart people know more than you! As Jobe from Arrested Development would say '…

The downvotes are a badge of honor btw, it means you are onto something and countering the pathetic herd mentality of HN these days. It's sad! So yeah I love when I get downvotes, it means I'm not like the rest of you cattle around here, thank god! C-137 forever baby.

Re: Hyperloop One Becomes ‘Virgin Hyperloop One’

#343
post #213
post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess it's just my own experience in Ontario - the GO transit trains look like they travel at about 110kph or so, and once you figure in their slow acceleration and frequent stops that means they're quite slow. Outside of the worst part of Toronto rush hour (which is notoriously bad) they're actually slower than the comparable coach bus from my area (Hamilton). The overall average speed is a paltry 50kph. When the…

The average speed is governed by acceleration and dwell time - the issue for GO is lack of electrification (which increases acceleration), and lack of level boarding (which decreases dwell time). 50km/h average is actually quite fast. I mean, a radius 50km from downtown is a huge area already. We have to densify inside that radius, not sprawl people further out because the trains are so fast. This means for example w…

> This means for example we need more stations, so that more developable land is within walking distance of service

That's what lrt and subways are for, not the big commuter GO trains.

Re: Hyperloop One Becomes ‘Virgin Hyperloop One’

#344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given the key function railroads had in opening up the west, I think you'll struggle to argue that that was even close to a bad deal. Indeed, that, if anything, is exactly the kind of investments that a government should be making.

nongovernment investments tend to be more sustainable, because they are driven by observed demand, instead of cronyism or politics. This was one of the few railways to survive the great railway crash, it's still operated today: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Northern_Railway_(U.S.)

Non-governmental investment - except for the 3 million acres in Federal land grants.

Re: Hyperloop One Becomes ‘Virgin Hyperloop One’

#345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about wrapping the tube in insulating foam and using peltier modules to regulate temperature. Or even using double walled tubes. It would not be challenging to regulate the temperature, but nobody talks about it because it doesn't even seem necessary.

> How about wrapping the tube in insulating foam At that point why not just bury it? It swaps the thermal problem for the water problem, but we know how to build tunnels.

>At that point why not just bury it?

Because foam is cheaper? A nice K.I.S.S. solution.

Having seemingly solved this thermal expansion problem "in the same category of problems separating us from a space elevator," I'll be expecting The Fountains of Paradise to come true soon. ;)

Re: Hyperloop One Becomes ‘Virgin Hyperloop One’

#346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't the Hyperloop concept rely on not having a perfect vacuum? It's supposed to suck in air on the front and blow it out the bottom as an air cushion. Without the air cushion you just have "maglev in a vacuum" instead. I'm sure that's also a fast mode of travel, but like you said, the vacuum part of it takes a lot of money.

Does the vacuum part take a lot of money? I would think that if anyone knows, it'd be someone like Elon Musk who has built a spacecraft company from the ground up. For many of Elon Musk's projects, I get the idea that Elon is mostly just bringing broad, multi-domain knowledge to bear on industries that have been siloed for a very long time. So everyone scoffs at a long vacuum tube and using turbomachinery, etc, but f…

A real vacuum (or very close to it) would be expensive, yes. That's what Musk designed the hyperloop to avoid; it works with a "low pressure" tube instead. His original hyperloop proposal paper outlines this in the intro:

http://www.spacex.com/sites/spacex/files/hyperloop_alpha.pdf

Another extreme is the approach, advocated by Rand and ET3, of drawing a hard or near hard vacuum in the tube and then using an electromagnetic suspension. The problem with this approach is that it is incredibly hard to maintain a near vacuum in a room, let alone 700 miles (round trip) of large tube with dozens of station gateways and thousands of pods entering and exiting every day. All it takes is one leaky seal or a small crack somewhere in the hundreds of miles of tube and the whole system stops working.

However, a low pressure (vs. almost no pressure) system set to a level where standard commercial pumps could easily overcome an air leak and the transport pods could handle variable air density would be inherently robust. Unfortunately, this means that there is a non-trivial amount of air in the tube and leads us straight into another problem.

The "another problem" being that if you just do low pressure, it means your pod has air in front if it and has to pushing that air around (or if that air has nowhere else to go in the forward tubing, trying to compress it, because not enough of the air can squeeze around the pods at the edge of the tube). That's what the hyperloop is getting around by sucking air in the front and blowing it out the bottom. Working as an air cushion is something of a bonus, and if everything works out right it also lets you avoid the expense of maglev.

Re: Hyperloop One Becomes ‘Virgin Hyperloop One’

#347
post #165

Just as a thought experiment, could the promotion of these "hyperloop" projects be a clever political ploy to misdirect/divert attention and prevent a viable high speed rail network from being built? Elon's main business is electric cars and (one of) Branson's is airlines. So a reasonable competitor to both is fast and cheap(er) public transport along a major travel corridor in the USA. This means that by promoting t…

High speed rail already was not going to happen in the US for large political and practical reasons. Having a master plan to kill American rail travel just sounds like a waste of time

Re: Hyperloop One Becomes ‘Virgin Hyperloop One’

#348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I trust my respone to 'waegawegawe' pads out where I'm coming from. He has a certain reputation here in Britain, however we here in Britain also have a certain reputation of shitting on people's success - I sincerely hope that's not how I'm coming across here. Anyway, this is tangential nonsense, I'm sorry for diluting discourse!

> however we here in Britain also have a certain reputation of shitting on people's success That's okay, I appreciate you loaning us John Oliver. ;)

In a sense, I think you gave him to us. You often do :)

Re: Hyperloop One Becomes ‘Virgin Hyperloop One’

#349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you can probably solve that with a bucket of white paint. Worst case you cover it with an aluminum shield- aluminum does not absorb infrared radiation and will reflect 99.9% of ambient heat It's, unfortunately, harder than this. It's a similar problem to the ones we dealt with regarding rockets, standing fueled, on a pad. Both methods you propose were tried. The solution is to (a) paint it and (b) launch before the…

Dude, what. That's bullshit, and the size difference will be on the order of dozens or low hundreds of microns. Not only that, but the distortion will be spread evenly across the tube because it's a tube. You're just asserting that putting the tube in shadow will somehow not block heat from the sun. I'm also not sure you understand what I'm saying about an aluminum shield? Aluminum has an emissivity coefficient of .0…

I think what we have here is someone applying a known problem and solution space for one industry (rocketry) to another (civil engineering). A large vertical tube that needs to move quickly and under great stress may not allow for the same solutions that apply to a large horizontal tube that is relatively static.

Fixing a large enough solar shield above a rocket hundreds of feet in the air which has to get out of the way quickly before the rocket launches has very different requirements than fixing a shading structure above a vertical static structure a few tens of feet in the air. I'm not sure how this problem was solved in rocketry is necessarily indicative of how hard it is to solve in other circumstances.

Re: Hyperloop One Becomes ‘Virgin Hyperloop One’

#350
post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting idea. In Denver, they're partnering with our regional transportation district to evaluate a hyperloop system here. Unfortunately RTD has been completely incompetent with existing rail programs to date so there isn't much confidence in their ability to pull this off. Could potentially be designed to fail.

Yeah, Denver being chosen just convinced me that this whole thing is pump and dump cash grab. CDOT has this thing for "public/private partnerships" which are just thinly veiled schemes siphoning off taxpayer money. The whole US36 debacle proved to me that they aren't capable of negotiating a good deal on the part of the taxpayers.

What whole thing? The Denver partnership was made by Hyperloop One, which is just one of the companies trying to build it, and is not affiliated with Elon Musk.
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