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Arabic characters found woven into burial costumes from Viking boat graves

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Re: Arabic characters found woven into burial costumes from Viking boat graves

#31

Well, why don't they think that Vikings simply seen these as a decoration, not understanding what they mean? That happens in much much more recent times. Late Russian ex-foreign minister, and ex-prime minister Primakov, who is Arab states specialist and reads Arabic scripts very well, once saw a garment with 'No god except Allah...' on Patriarch of Russia Alexy II, shocking him because similar ritual garments were us…

[deleted]

Re: Arabic characters found woven into burial costumes from Viking boat graves

#32
post #23

This makes me think of the movie the 13th warrior[0] where a warrior from Baghdad fights along side Vikings [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_13th_Warrior

That's because the first part of the story was based on this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmad_ibn_Fadlan

Which Michael Crichton blended into a retelling of Beowulf.

Re: Arabic characters found woven into burial costumes from Viking boat graves

#33

Well, why don't they think that Vikings simply seen these as a decoration, not understanding what they mean? That happens in much much more recent times. Late Russian ex-foreign minister, and ex-prime minister Primakov, who is Arab states specialist and reads Arabic scripts very well, once saw a garment with 'No god except Allah...' on Patriarch of Russia Alexy II, shocking him because similar ritual garments were us…

As a funny modern example, check out Kenyon Martin, former NBA all-star, having Chinese character tattoos. I never really thought about this until social media apparently all told him to back off when he said current Brooklyn Nets point guard Jeremy Lin shouldn't have dreadlocks in his hair because that was a black culture thing, and then Lin (politely) pointed out that Martin had Chinese character tattoos. I imagine very similar.

And then on the flip side, I read an article a while back about how t-shirt manufacturers in China choose English slogans for making t-shirts based on how nice they think the letters look, not based on what the words mean. They have no idea what the words mean and will actually even change some of the letters to make the pattern look nicer if they think it helps.

Re: Arabic characters found woven into burial costumes from Viking boat graves

#35
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "We know from other Viking tomb > excavations that DNA analysis has > shown some of the people buried in > them originated from places like > Persia, where Islam was very dominant Which is also not proof-positive that there were Muslim Vikings, but as we know there were Persian Vikings, and as the name Allah appears as decoration, it does start to see pretty likely, no?

> Persia, where Islam was very dominant Was that true at the time? They were certainly ruled by a caliphate, but other religions survive in Persia till this day so I wouldn't be surprised if the process took centuries. There also appears to be some repression of Persian people after. That Viking could of also been a refugee of the islamification process or the various power struggles in the region at the time.

> "but other religions survive in Persia till this day"

Just to be clear, what is known as Persia is a subset of modern day Iran:

http://www.heritageinstitute.com/zoroastrianism/iranpersia

Quick note about non-Islamic religions in Iran:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Iran

"The remaining 0.6% associate themselves with non-Islamic religious minorities, including Bahá'ís, Mandeans, Yarsanis, Zoroastrians, Jews, and Christians. The latter three minority religions are officially recognized and protected, and have reserved seats in the Iran parliament."

Re: Arabic characters found woven into burial costumes from Viking boat graves

#36

Well, why don't they think that Vikings simply seen these as a decoration, not understanding what they mean? That happens in much much more recent times. Late Russian ex-foreign minister, and ex-prime minister Primakov, who is Arab states specialist and reads Arabic scripts very well, once saw a garment with 'No god except Allah...' on Patriarch of Russia Alexy II, shocking him because similar ritual garments were us…

Is it actually shocking? Isn't it just a statement the Orthodox church would agree with ("there is no god except God") written in Arabic?

Re: Arabic characters found woven into burial costumes from Viking boat graves

#37
post #23

This makes me think of the movie the 13th warrior[0] where a warrior from Baghdad fights along side Vikings [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_13th_Warrior

The TV show Vikings shows one Viking family around 1100? traveling to Arab lands and picking up an East Asian female along the way and being the first ones to attack England, heavily fictionalized.

IIRC the place they showed was somewhere in Moorish Spain

Re: Arabic characters found woven into burial costumes from Viking boat graves

#38

Well, why don't they think that Vikings simply seen these as a decoration, not understanding what they mean? That happens in much much more recent times. Late Russian ex-foreign minister, and ex-prime minister Primakov, who is Arab states specialist and reads Arabic scripts very well, once saw a garment with 'No god except Allah...' on Patriarch of Russia Alexy II, shocking him because similar ritual garments were us…

But Allah is a cognate of El/Elohim. You could translate it as There is no god except El/Elohim. Just because it uses Arabic characters doesn't mean it can't be translated into English (or Russian) as something other than Allah.

Re: Arabic characters found woven into burial costumes from Viking boat graves

#39

Sceptical that this means that there were Muslim Vikings. Arabic script was commonly used throughout medieval Iberia as decoration, often without any meaningful words, just Arabic letters strung together for aesthetic effect. Wouldn’t surprise me if something similar was going on here, where Iranian weavers were simply mass producing cloth for export with Ali and Allah embroidered as decoration. Keep in mind that Vik…

Here in Lithuania (well the empire, so Poland and Belarus too) there were a large number of Muslim settlers who arrived in the 14th century. They were known for their military strength and were invited by Vytautas to aid in the efforts against the Christian Crusaders.

If military prowess was as highly regarded as we believe to the Vikings, I wouldn’t be surprised if they did something similar too.

Re: Arabic characters found woven into burial costumes from Viking boat graves

#40

Well, why don't they think that Vikings simply seen these as a decoration, not understanding what they mean? That happens in much much more recent times. Late Russian ex-foreign minister, and ex-prime minister Primakov, who is Arab states specialist and reads Arabic scripts very well, once saw a garment with 'No god except Allah...' on Patriarch of Russia Alexy II, shocking him because similar ritual garments were us…

Very interesting, do you have a reference?
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