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The Depression Thing

zachholman.com

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Re: The Depression Thing

#271

Post by marcus_holmes »

Rapzid wrote: post #265
ElatedOwl wrote: post #15

I was diagnosed with "major depression" when I was 14, did the medication and therapy thing for a bit but the medication made me a zombie. Therapy helped me learn to cope a little better, but I was never "cured" of my depression. My 20s have been pretty bad, but in the last year and a half I've lost 100+lbs and have been running and lifting. It turns out the common sense advice to depression was really what I needed…

Exercise is great. I just came back from a trip and where I was killing myself for 5 days straight. The feel-goods after the exertion ended lasted about 4-5 days. Had a sweet workout on day 3, but a bit of anxiety set in day 5 with the subsequent drink to squash it.. I KNOW continuous exercise helps, however outside of the above forced circumstance I'm suspicious at this point that I exercise when I'm feeling better…

I was fighting this with my depression.

I used to say to myself "just put your running gear on. You don't have to leave the house. But you can put your running gear on".

then "OK, now go outside. You don't have to run. Just go outside"

some days I would turn around and go back in. And I've have to be OK with that, too. No point beating myself up for it. Some days were not running days.

once outside, I'd be "OK, now run to the end of the street". If I could do that, then most of the time I'd be off and could do 5 km's.

Some days I'd get to the end of the street and stop.

The temptation to beat myself up for the bad days was immense. Huge. Everything in my schooling and upbringing told me that I should just push through the reluctance and "just do it!". But for me, down that road lies worse depression. Being able to say to myself "today is not a running day, and that's OK" was a path out of the intense self-criticism that got me depressed in the first place.

It didn't help that exercise had been used as a punishment in school - "you boy, you're late, run twice around the field!". My schooling had taught me that exercise was punishment. I found it hard to run because I felt like I was punishing myself for something. But if I didn't run then I would criticise myself.

I've got a better handle on it now. Some days I run. Some days I don't. It's up to me. I enjoy running, and enjoy how it makes me feel, so I do it more often than not. But if I don't want to, I won't, and no-one has the right to criticise me for that. Not even me ;)

Re: The Depression Thing

#272

Post by boomboomsubban »

projektir wrote: post #210
bionoid wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Careful with that advice. [...] Whatever you do to counter your depression, have a trustworthy, knowledgeable aid at your side: a therapist. Quoting the UiA, "One [1988] study indicates that 70% of therapists had seen for treatment at least one patient who had had sex with a previous therapist. Of the latter, 96% were male." [1] I guess the moral of my comment is - be careful giving advice (period) 1: http://encycl…

I'm not sure how this page is meant to work but I can't find the study this claim came from? It's linking to a book?

The source is a training book on how to sue psychiatrists, I can't find the study anywhere. Even if it does exist, it's saying that a lot of therapists have seen a client who had sex with a therapist. If someone wanted to have sex with a therapist, they would visit a lot of therapists.

This explores the topic in a more meaningful way, and links sources. https://kspope.com/sexiss/research5.php#a8studies

Re: The Depression Thing

#273

Post by projektir »

sp3000 wrote: post #248
jrowley wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's easy to become dependent on exercising, push too hard, get injured, and struggle while you can't exercise. Moderation can be difficult for some of us even with something like running.

Here is where the benefits of promoting exercise far outweigh any risks that people who exercise may experience. There is no need to hedge here. Exercise might not cure your depression or even help it, but in general, exercise has been shown over and over again to be one of the most effective things that you can do for mental and physical health.

I can't really agree with this, there are definitely lots of negative avenues from exercise if not done right.

Generally, hopefully, most people will do exercise more or less "right", but this is not a safe assumption.

Re: The Depression Thing

#274

Post by pdfernhout »

earlybike wrote: post #142
kbhn wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone's throwing stones in a glass house. Still waiting on ~any~ article to back up your assertion from a respected institution.

I never claimed to have any evidence— you did but didn’t deliver. If you read my initial post again you can read that this is my personal top 10 list. So I won’t provide any evidence. And my one reply was just imitating your discussion style.

See my posts above for references to books and articles by Fuhrman, Hyman, Weil, Korb, Hickey, Moore, Bluezones, Howey, and others that support your suggestions as things that can help people in various ways -- quite a few providing evidence linked to scientific studies and thus moving beyond personal anecdotes.

Your point #11 is insightful too, judging by the moderation of several comments in this thread. :-)

That said, often the ongoing "cause" of depression is an interwoven set of issues which may feed on each other in a downward spiral, and getting out of those overlapping feedback loops can be difficult -- even if in hindsight specific causes might be identifiable. So, I can see why someone might object to the phrasing that "there's a clear reason for a depression" even as I tend to agree with the premise overall that causes (e.g. lack of sunlight, lack of sleep, relationship issues, poor nutrition, etc.) can usually be identified and (hopefully) addressed. But when the causes interact, granted, it can be very difficult to try to untangle that knot -- like when money issues prevent eating healthier or when (as an extreme interwoven example) relationship issues undermine sleeping well, which leads to financial issues, which stresses relationships further, leading to binge eating of junk food and sugar spikes and inflammation and headaches, leading to avoiding exercise, causing lowered self-esteem from worse appearance contributing back to relationship issues, and so on for strange knotty loops... The good news is, like Alex Korb (in "The Upward Spiral: Using Neuroscience to Reverse the Course of Depression, One Small Change at a Time") and others point out elsewhere, a positive upward spiral is possible too, as one issue after another gets addressed which frees more energy for dealing with the next issue...

Re: The Depression Thing

#275

Post by lohankin »

Following generic ideas as to how to improve your life is what makes people depressed in the first place. You MUST do this, you MUST do that, become rich, retire early, make the world a better place, do something for humanity, healthy diet, exercise, you name it... Sure this all makes you depressed - it's surprising there's still someone not depressed out there. And now what? More diet, more exercise? Come up with a list of things you enjoy. Be contrarian. Stop listening to anyone, and especially - to your "inner voice" - he is lying to you.

Re: The Depression Thing

#276

Post by 0xcde4c3db »

ewjordan wrote: post #122
jbob2000 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The medical community calls what you're doing "terminal uniqueness" and I've noticed that this is very prevalent with people who suffer from depression: "Those therapies won't work on me, I am different, I need a special treatment". Sleep, eat well, keep active. Nothing about that advice is dangerous. But it is hard to do if you aren't in the habit of doing it. (I know what you're going to say next, "but chemicals in…

Is there actual research that shows that the sleep/eat/exercise approach works by itself for everyone that is compliant? Most of the psychiatric community would absolutely agree that it helps, or couldn't hurt, but (anecdotally) I know athletes that control all of that stuff like a science because they have to in order to compete, but still suffer from depression, so I have trouble believing that's all there is to it…

> Is there actual research that shows that the sleep/eat/exercise approach works by itself for everyone that is compliant?

As far as I know, outside of crappy studies it's rare for a single intervention to even work for a majority of compliant patients/clients, let alone everyone. This is probably related to the notion of "depression" actually being multiple illnesses that share a common syndrome.

Re: The Depression Thing

#277

Post by AlphaWeaver »

projektir wrote: post #163

Some conundrums I have with this article and other folk here saying that you should get a therapist, that everyone should see a therapist, and you should listen to your therapist: 1. How do you find a good therapist, and given the disparity in their quality, why would you trust yours all that much? 2. Therapists can get very very expensive. Yes, including insurance. Very very expensive. 3. Therapists often can't meet…

These are very real questions that we as a society really need to think about solutions for. Very good to point them out...

Re: The Depression Thing

#278

Post by 0xbear »

ElatedOwl wrote: post #15

I was diagnosed with "major depression" when I was 14, did the medication and therapy thing for a bit but the medication made me a zombie. Therapy helped me learn to cope a little better, but I was never "cured" of my depression. My 20s have been pretty bad, but in the last year and a half I've lost 100+lbs and have been running and lifting. It turns out the common sense advice to depression was really what I needed…

Could it be also change in your environment? I had depression for most of the 00s. Changed jobs, and six months later it was gone. Company that helped me not be depressed was Google, and I’ll be forever thankful for that. I took up exercise later, but mostly it was just reduced anxiety and a better working environment.

Re: The Depression Thing

#279

Post by FreePeachman »

icc97 wrote: post #63

This is the same Zac Holman who was fired from GitHub [0] when he was having tough times. It's great how open he is about it. I'm waiting until we see going to the doctor to talk about pain in your brain the same as going to talk about pain in say your colon. That is, perhaps not something you'd talk about to everyone but at least you'll be able to see someone for free in Europe or with minimal insurance costs in the…

It's funny, I rarely have "emotional" interactions with people on social media. But the one time I did, it was Zach Holman ripping me a new one on Twitter. He treats people bad.

No wonder he is depressed. He feels guilty because he is such an a$$hole.

Re: The Depression Thing

#280

Post by wolfspider »

In my teenage years what really helped with my depression was going out and getting involved in the local music scene. Becoming a "personality" of sorts did wonders. Especially the punk scene- those are some upbeat people they will literally kick the depression out of you simply because its not widely tolerated at their shows. Live a little, create your own strange fiction, give yourself something to remember.
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