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The Depression Thing

zachholman.com

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Re: The Depression Thing

#221

Post by eradicatethots »

Swizec wrote: post #201
pgeorgi wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sleep, eat well, keep active. Nothing about that advice is dangerous except if the response to "I tried, but it doesn't work for me" is "your depression makes it even harder, but that is literally irrelevant". Your parent post didn't leave enough room for "try something else, but don't forget these once you're fit enough".

> except if the response to "I tried, but it doesn't work for me" is "your depression makes it even harder, but that is literally irrelevant" In my experience dealing with depressed people, me included, there’s a huge spectrum in what “tried” means. Doing it once won’t help much. Forcing yourself to consistently do it every day for 2 years? Now we’re talking. If after 2 years of doing things that are known to up your…

So did you try Rust for two years before deciding it didn’t help you? Your position on these things is across the board absurd

>if you’re on meds ...

Have you considered that the people in this thread saying it doesn’t work aren’t just saying “it’s hard”?

67% of college kids are suffering acute anxiety, is 67% of the college populations only problem a lack of excercise? Your insistence on these things is frustrating and obnoxious. The people who called you insensitive have very good cause, I hope that doesn’t make you proud.

Also, is discipline even a good thing? Do you think cave men said “well I have to hunt 5 hours a day...”? Probably not, or we wouldn’t have agriculture. Discipline seems like a substitute for ludditetism.

Also! Advice like this live and die by how hard they are to follow. If your advice is so hard to follow for te depressed that they won’t do it, it’s much harder to be proven wrong.

Sorry to rant but this advice is upsetting to me.

Re: The Depression Thing

#222

Post by Domenic_S »

DanBC wrote: post #33
Domenic_S wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, citation needed on that one. Some crackpots think that way, sure, but "reasonably common"?

there's a whole organisation for them in the UK. All the "mad in america" stuff: https://www.madinamerica.com/about-us/ > one that emphasizes psychosocial care, and de-emphasizes the use of psychiatric medications, particularly over the long-term. https://twitter.com/ClinpsychLucy/status/918029768951500801 > It's not about 'illness.' It's about being human. http://peerlyhuman.blogspot.co.uk/2017/10/why-i-oppose-world…

I mean, you said they reject ANY HINT of medical modal, and say it's ONLY social factors. I didn't see that there.

I don't know if you've been through the system or not, but in the US MUCH of the time you tell your GP you've got the blues, and they say oh hey well take this zoloft/xanax and see how you feel. On the first visit. It happened to me, it happened to my wife, it's happened to more friends than I can count, all of us on great, private insurance. Anyway, that's the kind of thing mad in america is talking about, not ANY HINT of biology.

Re: The Depression Thing

#223

Post by astura »

graphitezepp wrote: post #48
ElatedOwl wrote: post #15

I was diagnosed with "major depression" when I was 14, did the medication and therapy thing for a bit but the medication made me a zombie. Therapy helped me learn to cope a little better, but I was never "cured" of my depression. My 20s have been pretty bad, but in the last year and a half I've lost 100+lbs and have been running and lifting. It turns out the common sense advice to depression was really what I needed…

Yes, I was quite annoyed by them calling out, and seeming to try to shame, the advice of going for a run. Mental stuff can be pretty bad my way, and these days sticking to a good workout routine is doing wonders for keeping me grounded. Depressed people should try going for a run.

When I was depressed I went for lots of runs, walks, bike rides, did plenty of sets. All it did was make me feel worse because it caused massive amounts of physical pain, and not in a "good" way.

I think diet and exercise can do wonders for mild and maybe even moderate depression but the odds that it can cure severe depression are very, very small. It's dangerously simplistic to say "you just need some exercise, man."

Re: The Depression Thing

#224

Post by ada1981 »

kweinber wrote: post #64
ada1981 wrote: post #23

MDMA assisted therapy helped heal this in me entirely. I found depression was resistance to feeling and accepting my emotions fully and that I could instead make space to engage with and be with emotions.

Is there a legal, accepted MDMA assisted treatment path or something you fashioned yourself? Any references you could share?

Maps.org is the best place to get the latest resources and to learn of current clinical trials (mostly for PTSD).

I did my work on my own with a trusted guide. Though I have been asked to write up my experience to serve as a starting point for more research.

Basic format was 100mg + 50mg booster at 2 hour mark. Eye mask, couch, blanket, music.

My interface with western psychiatry was a diagnosis of schizophrenia (at 18) and later bipolar (at 33). And I've experienced everything from anxiety, paranoia, depersonalization, depression, suicidailty, panic attacks, etc.

I'm med free, feeling very healthy inside, in love with a wonderful woman. My relationships are nourishing and my internal compass is much more trustable. I'm 36 now, so it took a couple years once I decided to "fix" the problem. I also feel like I let go of a lot of the defenses I was hiding behind and quite enjoy life from a vulnerable and honest place.

My biggest challenge now is just cleaning up the debts and general mess left by my healing process expenses and getting a bit more consistent income. But both of those seem possible and manageable. And I also have been able to help / coach a lot of other people along the way.

Re: The Depression Thing

#225

Post by jonnybgood »

brookside wrote: post #211
eradicatethots wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you tried not fighting?

What does not fighting look like on a practical level? For me, it was months jobless and isolated at a parent's house in the middle of nowhere. For others, not battling means not getting out of bed, and for people facing other "demons" (what a bad word) not fighting might mean to continue to consume drugs or alcohol, or to keep not eating, or eating too much.

> What does not fighting look like on a practical level?

For me, it goes "I'm feeling depressed. Okay, I feel depressed. That's interesting. Now what is it that I must do right now at this moment? Get out of bed. Okay, done. I'm still depressed, but what's next?"

In other words, I don't bother fighting it or avoiding it. I just acknowledge it and then figure what needs to be done next.

Re: The Depression Thing

#226

Post by a_t48 »

dovin wrote: post #179
pure_ambition wrote: post #84

People: PLEASE STOP recommending depressed people to take psychedelics. There is no such thing as "psychedelic therapy." Psychedelics can easily make people with mental health issues MUCH WORSE. Nobody needs a full blown existential crisis on top of major depression. I get it if you like the idea of doing psychedelics, but they are mind-altering in significant and poorly understood ways, and can easily cause others h…

Psychedelic therapy is very real. MDMA was recently deemed a "breakthrough therapy" by the FDA, which means Phase 3 trials are being fast-tracked as they have shown so far to treat PTSD far better than anything currently on the market. This is just the beginning of rigorous research into psychedelic therapy. We don't have good non-anecdotal data on how it treats depression yet, but we'll get there. And the data is co…

A big part of psychedelic therapy is the second part - "therapy". Psychedelics by themselves may help or may hurt, it's a bit of a roll of the dice. The thing being fast tracked by the FDA includes guidance by a therapist and isn't just taking E in your bedroom. These treatments can _absolutely_ be helpful, but it needs to be done the right way. The GP comment isn't saying that they aren't helpful (and neither am I!), only that it isn't a magic bullet. Set and setting are important.

Re: The Depression Thing

#227

Post by sparkie »

rmetzler wrote: post #170
throwaway5650 wrote: post #147

Throwaway for reasons that will become obvious. Imagine that you met a friend you hadn't seen in years. They seemed really down, and you ask what's up. They say, "My job is to collect tolls in a tollbooth in Alaska. For 9 months a year it's freezing, and the heater breaks every day, and I'm stuck outside wrenching on the thing with one hand while Googling "how to fix a heater" on my phone with the other while I slowl…

I've been in your shoes earlier this year. Or maybe I didn't come even close. I just want to say, I felt like what you describe. Then I read an article about the microbiome of dirt [0]. In the moment I read this on my smartphone I sat in the grass on a hill and I thought to myself, fuck it, what can go wrong, I'm going to stick my finger in dirt, put it in my mouth and eat a little bit of dirt. And that's what I did.…

Probably not a great idea to start eating dirt because it may contain M. vaccae. Let's not forget that clostridium botulinum is also present in soil.

Re: The Depression Thing

#228

Post by brookside »

jonnybgood wrote: post #225
brookside wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does not fighting look like on a practical level? For me, it was months jobless and isolated at a parent's house in the middle of nowhere. For others, not battling means not getting out of bed, and for people facing other "demons" (what a bad word) not fighting might mean to continue to consume drugs or alcohol, or to keep not eating, or eating too much.

> What does not fighting look like on a practical level? For me, it goes "I'm feeling depressed. Okay, I feel depressed. That's interesting. Now what is it that I must do right now at this moment? Get out of bed. Okay, done. I'm still depressed, but what's next?" In other words, I don't bother fighting it or avoiding it. I just acknowledge it and then figure what needs to be done next.

I think we are in agreement that taking constant little actions is the wise course.

To me, that is fighting.

Re: The Depression Thing

#229

Post by ada1981 »

songshu wrote: post #178
ada1981 wrote: post #23

MDMA assisted therapy helped heal this in me entirely. I found depression was resistance to feeling and accepting my emotions fully and that I could instead make space to engage with and be with emotions.

How did you deal with the come downs?

Good question. I typically would use 5HTP and some other supplements for 3 days before and after the sessions.

But I also learned that the "come down" was also a useful state of consciousness for me.

It was like the water level was lower and I could see / feel the topography of my subcocious more clearly. So sensitive points in the following days became useful if I was able to go more deeply into the difficult experience, just like what the medicine allowed me to do.

I often would feel like the medicine would give me a preview of the work I'd need to do in the coming weeks internally, and then when I encountered similar emotions in the weeks after, it was like the training wheels were off.

So in short, the "come down"c which honestly was never anything major, was something I was able to use for further healing and exploration.

Re: The Depression Thing

#230

Post by eradicatethots »

jonnybgood wrote: post #225
brookside wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does not fighting look like on a practical level? For me, it was months jobless and isolated at a parent's house in the middle of nowhere. For others, not battling means not getting out of bed, and for people facing other "demons" (what a bad word) not fighting might mean to continue to consume drugs or alcohol, or to keep not eating, or eating too much.

> What does not fighting look like on a practical level? For me, it goes "I'm feeling depressed. Okay, I feel depressed. That's interesting. Now what is it that I must do right now at this moment? Get out of bed. Okay, done. I'm still depressed, but what's next?" In other words, I don't bother fighting it or avoiding it. I just acknowledge it and then figure what needs to be done next.

For me depression comes from thinking I should feel differently than I do, so fighting only makes that worse, whereas not fighting is better.

Could be this is a cultural problem. In our culture we’re supposed to like work and everybody is expected to shut up.

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