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The Depression Thing

zachholman.com

211–220 of 348 posts

Re: The Depression Thing

#211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've tried to find help for something like depression for almost two decades from therapy. As much as I have wanted it to be, I haven't found therapy to be particularly powerful. Running is weak also, but insomuch as all you can do is fight and claw your way out of depression[^], long runs, in my experience, can aid to some degree. [^]Which may very well be a symptom of something(s) we don't understand yet, rather th…

Have you tried not fighting?

What does not fighting look like on a practical level?

For me, it was months jobless and isolated at a parent's house in the middle of nowhere.

For others, not battling means not getting out of bed, and for people facing other "demons" (what a bad word) not fighting might mean to continue to consume drugs or alcohol, or to keep not eating, or eating too much.

Re: The Depression Thing

#212

I was diagnosed with "major depression" when I was 14, did the medication and therapy thing for a bit but the medication made me a zombie. Therapy helped me learn to cope a little better, but I was never "cured" of my depression. My 20s have been pretty bad, but in the last year and a half I've lost 100+lbs and have been running and lifting. It turns out the common sense advice to depression was really what I needed…

as others have noted, these things are a negative feedback loop when you start slacking on them. so i think its important to make them as easy as possible, and externally enforced as possible. i think they truly do help alot of people, of course not all, but many . im really not sure how to solve that chicken and egg problem tho- you dont do these three things because you are depressed, which begets more of the same.…

I’m pretty sure depressed people don’t believe these things will help them. If they did, they would just force themselves into it despite feeling bad. The idea that there’s a problem here, rather than that exercise is just actually worthless, is ridiculous.

Re: The Depression Thing

#213
A question for the author or anyone who has been through a similar experience: Can you better describe what life is like without the "haze"?

One thing that I see consistently in these kinds of writeups is the author describing living life "through a haze". Then later, after the therapy/drugs helps them out of the depressive pit, they say how much clearer things are. This worries me because I have plenty of days where I feel "hazy", but have always though it to be normal.

Re: The Depression Thing

#214
post #37

I was diagnosed with "major depression" when I was 14, did the medication and therapy thing for a bit but the medication made me a zombie. Therapy helped me learn to cope a little better, but I was never "cured" of my depression. My 20s have been pretty bad, but in the last year and a half I've lost 100+lbs and have been running and lifting. It turns out the common sense advice to depression was really what I needed…

People who can just sleep, diet and exercise and the depression simply goes away, that's not real major depression. I really hate how people spread this stuff so condescendingly. No, it might have worked for you, but it does not work for millions of people who suffer from it.

Agreed. Those people have nothing to offer the depressed. I’m not sure if they really want to help anyways, saying “oh just excercise” is useful the same way saying “not my problem” is useful. But then, why say anything st all?

Re: The Depression Thing

#215
post #38

I was diagnosed with "major depression" when I was 14, did the medication and therapy thing for a bit but the medication made me a zombie. Therapy helped me learn to cope a little better, but I was never "cured" of my depression. My 20s have been pretty bad, but in the last year and a half I've lost 100+lbs and have been running and lifting. It turns out the common sense advice to depression was really what I needed…

Yup same here. Clinical depression in high school, meds, therapy, suicide watch the whole shebang. Fun times, can’t remember two years of my life. So far the only thing that’s actually worked has been staying busy/productive/creative, good nutrition, exercise etc. Everyone always tells me I’m an insensitive dick when i suggest getting off their ass and doing stuff to treat their depression. But fuck it, that shit wor…

And what do you say to people who have actually tried it and feel no better? Just try it more? And if that’s what you say, it seems you don’t hold this belief based on the fact that it works, but something unrelated entirely, and so I’d say it’s not useful to share it with me or anyone else.

Re: The Depression Thing

#216
Humanity has a long way to go before it can actually treat depression properly. Granted, some things have improved drastically, but there's a lot left to be desired.

Awareness around clinical depression is a lot better than it was just decades ago, and that's great for the millions who are clinically depressed. Yet I've been seeing us going down this destructive path of seeing all depression as a physiological condition, which is often not the case and delegitimizes actual issues that are causing a person to be depressed. I can tell because too often the answer is either "just eat/sleep/exercise better" or "see a therapist and get medicated". What wonderfully simple solutions to a complex problem.

In LA, my sort of city, the culture has an emphasis on being happy or "good" all the time. If someone asks you how you're doing and you reply "I'm doing okay", there's a good chance that person will cock an eyebrow and assume that something's wrong because you didn't say you were good or great. I suspect this is a phenomenon in a lot of places in America, but I think it's especially prevalent in SoCal where superficiality is through the roof. Sure, asking people about their day is mostly a form of social lubricant, but such language subtly tells the unconscious mind that something is socially wrong with broadcasting unhappiness of any kind.

In actually, I'd say the unconscious mind is correct in its interpretation; people generally don't want to help you, let alone hear what you have to say, if something is genuinely wrong with your life or even if it's merely hum-drum. This can even be true with your closest friends and family, and even if they are receptive, you may be motivated to be stoic in order to maintain your role in your circle. Nobody wants to be the one who has problems or is "crazy" because everyone knows deep down that opening up could mean you'll be treated as lesser than you were when you held it all in.

Social media is an amplification of this phenomenon. The vast majority of what you see on social media is people posting the very best of that they've got, creating a misleading image that they and everyone else are having splendid lives. Why aren't you one of those beautiful chiclet-teethed young people constantly traveling and partying? Something must be wrong if your life isn't like that. /sarcasm

Therapy is great, and medication can be great for those who really need it. It just sucks that we've not created a world for ourselves where we can talk to each other about our problems. It's not about providing solutions, but about being heard and understood by someone. Maybe sometimes people are depressed for real reasons, and telling them that their feelings are akin to a disease can serve to harm them rather than help. I believe I'm open to hearing out my friend's problems, but I know that they think they'll be a burden unto others and be outcast. This I assume from hearing my friends mention going to therapy, but they rarely if ever have anything particularly troubling or deep to say to me. It may not even be conscious, but instinctual, to want not to seem like a burden – for the consequences can be hard to bear.

It's about time we allow each other to be a burden every once and a while.

Re: The Depression Thing

#217
post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dude, screw you. Seriously. The biggest screw up we all make about mental health is the assumption that the thing that works for one person is the thing that works for another. I would have hoped that someone who has been through treatment would understand that, but here you are spouting the "get your life in order and it'll all be dandy, it worked for me!" crap that's so unhelpful in the first place to people with m…

> "get your life in order and it'll all be dandy, it worked for me!" No it won’t all be dandy. But it helps. Or at least it’s what I’ve seen help the most people I know who are or have been depressed. At the end of the day, the main thing to do is to not give in to depression. That thing wants you to sit on the couch and feel sorry for yourself. That’s like one of the main symptoms. Fighting that urge helps make it g…

I think my other reply to you is relevant here, because your advice cannot be proven wrong. You’re replying to someone who tried what you said, saw no marginal improvements, and saying that means they have to keep trying the same thing regardless. If someone tries this for several years and it doesn’t help them, would you consider your theory thoroughly debunked?

Re: The Depression Thing

#218
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe depression often involves some developmental or shock traumas that prevent or inhibit the full feeling of emotions. The idea that depression is "anger directed inward" was a useful tool for me. The view that we can release these old traumas and form new pathways and responses helped me heal after a diagnosis of schizophrenia and bipolar (which included suicidal depression and panic attacks, anxiety).

Do you believe in Austrian economics or Young Earth Creationism too? I mean, it's within your rights...

What I know is that I was diagnosed with bipolar / depression after being suicidal and was offered nothing but medication from Western Psychiatry.

My entire life up until that point had been based around avoiding emotions. From chasing fame, money, success,drugs, sex, criticizing, creating drama, etc.

At the time I was consulting for a Peter Thiel backed startup focusing on finding alternative cures for western diagnosis.

I took what the doctors there were showing me and began to look at alternative perspectives.

What I found was shocking. That antidepressants didn't really work and outcomes for most people were pretty terrible in general.

The view of depression that is it is unfelt anger allowed me to begin to make more space to feel anger vs. stuffing it down or projecting it onto others. There has been a little research into this that doesn't contradict it.

I followed the experience of anger back inside and it opened up an entirely new part of my mind. I was able to see past events in my life where I was hurt and scared and shut down. And how I learned to supress my emotions.

Through a combination of psychedelics, breathwork and NARM therapy, I learned how to stay with my emotions and how to make space to heal older traumas when I was feeling triggered or overwhelmed.

I was able to be with even more extreme states like paranoia or psychosis and every time I'd go to the heart of the emotional experience, in the moment I'd find some unprocessed event from my life that needed attention.

So, yeah. That way of thinking was very useful for me and was supported by a variety of resources that helped me along the way. Including some psychiatrists, doctors, and therapists.

I take no medication and now have access to a very deep, soft, warm and loving center in myself that I had never experienced before.

If something happens (like my grandmother dying last month), and I noticed I'm feeling depresssed, I use those same tools and get closer to the hurt or pain vs my old default of numbing, avoidance, depression or mania.

I'm an N of 1, of course but I've been able to help other people do the same and this approach feels healthier and more useful than purely symptom management.

We are all unique, and I certainly have access to some exotic states of consciousness, but as I said I feel connected, loving, content, solid and welcoming of all emotions including love and happiness.

Happy to discuss more privately if you prefer: a@175g.com

Cheers.

Re: The Depression Thing

#219

Meta (sorry mods, feel free to delete): Is anyone else getting insta-downvoted on every comment?

Some people don't share your views. So what? Why do you care?

I've got the karma to burn that I don't really care about the points. But aside from the "downvote is not a disagree button," twice in a row I clicked submit on a comment and by the time the page loaded I was at 0. I mean it was so quick that I wondered if 0 was the new default!

I noticed a few other people with perfectly reasonable comments that were grey, too. It seemed unusual. I've been around long enough to have a sense of what's usual.

Re: The Depression Thing

#220
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you tried regular voulentering, Gratitude letter writing, Holotropic breathwork or psychedelic therapy? I found those to be the most useful.

I've never done psychedelic therapy but I do vape a decent amount of weed. I think at times it helped me be a little more introspective without bias, but it could have just been a side effect of maturing. As far as breathwork, fitness is almost a form of meditation for me so I think there's some overlap. Running and lifting gives a lot of inner monologue and self reflection time.

My perspective : marijuana is a pretty good palliative medicine, and perhaps in high single doses can be used for psychedelics type work, but generally it doesn't have the healing properties for mental health that the classic psychedelics do.

Breathwork fitness. Breathwork, specifically Holotropic Breathwork, was developed by an Md as an alternative to LSD psychotherapy after prohibition began.

I'm happy to discuss more privately as I know these things can be very personal.

a@175g.com

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