Microsoft gives up on Windows 10 Mobile • Hacker News Board

Re: Microsoft gives up on Windows 10 Mobile

#371

Post by garganzol » Mon, Oct 09, 2017, 5:40 PM UTC

dpark wrote: post #325

wdn wrote: post #294

Microsoft got a chance to steal market shares and established themselves as an alternative to iOS and Android when they introduced Lumia 950 and 950XL. I really think the device were great. However, they made the fatal mistake on this, the price point. They priced the 950/950XL same as iPhone and Android flagship phones. Yes, I do understand the 950 and 950 XL have flagship hardware, however, you do not priced it as…

> Microsoft got a chance to steal market shares and established themselves as an alternative to iOS and Android when they introduced Lumia 950 and 950XL. The hardware was never the problem. Lots of great devices shipped with Windows Phone. (Disclosure: Microsoft employee)

At some point I looked for Windows Phone device with a decent audio output so I could enjoy my lossless paid subscription to services like Tidal.

I wasn't able to select a Windows Phone. There were several models but none of it made an explicit accent on sound quality. As a last resort I looked to external DACs and it turned out that Windows Phone didn't support them either.

I just went and bought a second hand iPhone 6 with a good discount. The sound quality I got from it was decent and I became a happy Apple customer one more time (had iPhone 4 and other Apple gears before).

So a statement that the hardware was never the problem is a bit of a stretch. Everything accumulates pretty quickly and every detail has an impact.

Re: Microsoft gives up on Windows 10 Mobile

#372

Post by untog » Mon, Oct 09, 2017, 5:42 PM UTC

dtx1 wrote: post #224

itsmenotyou wrote: post #30

I was working in Microsoft about 5 years ago and Satya's not lying when they say they tried everything to incentivise app developers. It was a big focus of the company at the time. For keystone apps they tried to partner with developers doing most of the work for them. For more niche apps they ran promotions for students and independent developers giving away free phones etc. But nothing was enough to get over the pr…

I worked 3 years as a windows phone dev and i'm sorry to say but Microsofts efforts were ... almost insultingly bad. It started with windows phone 8 and the Metro UI. Bad Idea. The UI was too far away from Android/iPhone to be easily ported and adding corporate design to it was hard as it was too different. Silverlight and XAML was okay for the time. Then came windows 8.1 and windows desktop 8 which was universally h…

There's a semi-contradiction in your post that I think speaks to some of the issues MS had:

"It started with windows phone 8 and the Metro UI. Bad Idea. The UI was too far away from Android/iPhone to be easily ported "

"half-baked half-assed phone plattform that at no point had even a single feature that wasn't available better on iOS and Android"

As someone who played around with WP7 when it first came out, I'd argue that the Metro UI was the best one available at the time. But the side effect of that is that it was different, and difficult to adapt an existing app to.

Essentially, MS needed to make a bold new platform with inventive new features, but also make the platform very compatible with the other major mobile platforms. You can't easily square that circle. Now, MS also messed up in a million and one ways (like my phone never getting a WP8 upgrade...) but I think their fundamental challenge was very, very difficult.

Re: Microsoft gives up on Windows 10 Mobile

#373

Post by liglesias » Mon, Oct 09, 2017, 5:43 PM UTC

I could have told them almost a decade ago that the whole Microsoft mobile/phone thing was doomed from the very start. It's amazing to me that it was so obvious to me then, and yet the smartest highest-paid people at Microsoft couldn't figure it out. Unbelievable.

Re: Microsoft gives up on Windows 10 Mobile

#374

Post by ChicagoDave » Mon, Oct 09, 2017, 5:45 PM UTC

As much as I loved Windows Phone (I bought 4 of them), the app development side was never mature enough to take seriously by most professionals. The support from Microsoft on the development side was pretty limited, outside of "hey, we're MS, you need to do this!"

At the time, the Metro theme seemed like a novel and interesting idea. In hindsight, mimicking the UX of iOS (which is exactly what Android did), was the correct path. Had MS made the Windows Phone look exactly like iOS, but offered an easier app dev story, there _might_ have been a chance to grow their market share.

But in reality, I doubt there is anything MS could have done to rebuild their mobile presence. Apple and Android are an unassailable juggernaut from a consumer's perspective and even I succumbed.

After buying the Nokia 1020, which was a phenomenal piece of hardware, MS started tinkering with core apps like the calendar and email. There was this fanfare of purchasing third party apps and adapting them, but this was the deal-breaker for me. These two apps (which I installed with an early beta of Windows 10 Mobile) were simply horrible. They were menu oriented. Mobile phone apps shouldn't have menus. Period. Anytime you see a hamburger menu, you're looking at pure UX laziness. When the second update came through and I saw these apps get _worse_....

...I walked out of work, walked the two blocks to the nearest AT&T store, threw the 1020 on the little round table and said, "iPhone 6plus, don't care about color or anything....and I rubber case"...

That was nearly three years ago. I recently upgraded to the 7plus and sold my 6plus for $250. I never even think about apps now. It just works.

My black Nokia 1020 with the recharging case sits in my desk. Worthless.

Re: Microsoft gives up on Windows 10 Mobile

#375

Post by freehunter » Mon, Oct 09, 2017, 5:48 PM UTC

elkhourygeorges wrote: post #368

Android released couple of months after the iPhone. Windows Phone couple of years later. This is it. Microsoft could have easily been the leading mobile platform.

Microsoft was the leading mobile platform. They even had apps, real apps, desktop-caliber (for the time) apps. 10 years before the iPhone.

Microsoft had the lead for a while and they got disrupted by a shinier, more consumer-friendly device. Their mistake was thinking that consumers didn't want a smartphone and aiming it at an enterprise market, like Blackberry. That "mistake" made them possibly billions of dollars over its life.

Apple took a huge risk going in the opposite direction. It's easy to look back and realize Microsoft gave up a huge market segment, but at the time things were going well for them. Their only competitor back then (Palm) bet the company on trying to make the transition to compete with Apple and... well. We all know what happened there.

Re: Microsoft gives up on Windows 10 Mobile

#376

Post by theduncan » Mon, Oct 09, 2017, 5:48 PM UTC

mgkimsal wrote: post #357

mobilio wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember that story for tablets. Same was with Amazon Fire Phone. But i don't know how you can write off $1B... because honestly even iPod or iPhone wasn't successfully from the beginning. So they invest years for that status. Competitors make clones, release them and after two months declaring abandoning market. Totally non-sence for me!

What's so weird about... well. not weird - just stupid(?). The HP thing - the guy in charge who made those decisions left soon after, IIRC (maybe was forced out, but didn't sound like it). You spend $1B acquiring palm for webOS, but don't want to invest any more in actually trying to market or develop developers? They flew off the shelves at $150/bucks, even with knowing there's no support, etc. Hobbyists wanted them…

I think the closest real analogy to what your thinking is Amazon, where they sell things like the Kindle line of items, close to price. In the hope that you buy more stuff from them.

Look at the fire tablets, you have a 7" for $50, there is no way there is any profit in that price.

Re: Microsoft gives up on Windows 10 Mobile

#377

Post by freehunter » Mon, Oct 09, 2017, 5:50 PM UTC

gwbas1c wrote: post #192

michaelbuckbee wrote: post #72

Windows Mobile is my favorite example of ecosystems being more valuable than individual user experiences. They came out later and really managed to hit a bright spot in between the customizability of Android and the sleekness of iOS. But without the deep app ecosystem backing them up, I'm not sure we're going to see any new players emerge in this current form factor of mobile computing. So far we've seen: - Amazon fa…

The irony of the Microsoft side of the story is that they tried many times to get into mobile. They had a full-powered smartphone, including apps and a web browser, for many years before the iPhone. I remember going to a store around 2005 or 2006 and deciding, "if I can get slashdot to load, I'm going to buy this phone." I couldn't figure it out! I don't know if I just couldn't figure it out, or the phone was misconf…

>they tried many times to get into mobile

Tried? When the iPhone came out, Windows Mobile had already existed for 7 years and had 40%+ of the smartphone market. I'd say that's a little more than "tried".

Re: Microsoft gives up on Windows 10 Mobile

#378

Post by freehunter » Mon, Oct 09, 2017, 5:53 PM UTC

nailer wrote: post #265

terminado wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facebook_Home http://www.htc.com/us/smartphones/htc-first/

I remember Facebook home, but it was more an attempt to colonise Android (like Microsoft is trying now) than a Blackberry, Jolla, Tizen etc offering.

Same as Amazon's phones, though. It's Android without admitting it's Android, and they're selling it as a completely different phone.

Similar to how Ubuntu is Linux, but their homepage doesn't mention the word "Linux" at all and they tried their damnedest to make it incompatible with the broader Linux community for a long time.

Re: Microsoft gives up on Windows 10 Mobile

#379

Post by mgkimsal » Mon, Oct 09, 2017, 5:55 PM UTC

theduncan wrote: post #376

mgkimsal wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's so weird about... well. not weird - just stupid(?). The HP thing - the guy in charge who made those decisions left soon after, IIRC (maybe was forced out, but didn't sound like it). You spend $1B acquiring palm for webOS, but don't want to invest any more in actually trying to market or develop developers? They flew off the shelves at $150/bucks, even with knowing there's no support, etc. Hobbyists wanted them…

I think the closest real analogy to what your thinking is Amazon, where they sell things like the Kindle line of items, close to price. In the hope that you buy more stuff from them. Look at the fire tablets, you have a 7" for $50, there is no way there is any profit in that price.

Looking back, I think the couple folks who were adamant about "you can't do that" were thinking of "dumping". Yet... it does happen, plenty. I think they're more favorably called "loss leaders". Well, different purposes behind them, I know, but yeah, Amazon is not making any substantive profits on some of those fires, but if you start renting movies from them... bingo.

Re: Microsoft gives up on Windows 10 Mobile

#380

Post by unsignedint » Mon, Oct 09, 2017, 5:57 PM UTC

criddell wrote: post #155

pier25 wrote: post #122

I don't think the problem was primarily the lack of apps but a major reason to use Windows mobile. With iOS you get the high end hardware and deep integration with Apple's ecosystem. With Android you get deep integration with Google's services and a wide range of devices in prices and features. What did you get with Windows mobile?

> What did you get with Windows mobile? From a consumer point of view, not much. There's a lot there for businesses though. If you employ a bunch of .Net developers for your in-house applications, Windows Mobile is a pretty natural way get a mobile app developed.

But then, if there are bunch of .NET developers, there's Xamarin.