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Are Hunter-Gatherers The Happiest Humans To Inhabit Earth?

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Re: Are Hunter-Gatherers The Happiest Humans To Inhabit Earth?

#111

Post by tonmoy »

jampekka wrote: post #58
tonmoy wrote: post #54

Why are we trying to optimize ourselves to maximize happiness? Of course the hunter gatherers were happier, they evolved their happiness enducing brains slowly in the span of hundreds of thousands of years. In contrast we are living in a fast changing world. I think happiness can no longer keep up as being the proper reward function for success.

What should we optimize for then? Shareholder value?

I think it would be different for each person. Personally I try to optimize for contributing to the collective human knowledge and enabling others to do so

Re: Are Hunter-Gatherers The Happiest Humans To Inhabit Earth?

#112

Post by [deleted] »

jjeaff wrote: post #65
t1o5 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly my thoughts, when people say they have a great work life balance at their enterprise IT company, it’s at the cost of some cheap labour outsourced somewhere. When you buy cheap cloths at Walmart or even at the brands, just have a look at the tag. Your luxury is at the cost of cheap wage slave labour or a child labour in a third world country. The new trend is 100% US based customer support. These are the very…

That cheap labor is exactly what has brought countless people out of extreme poverty in many countries that over the years have had the competitive advantage of cheap labor. This is how Japan and south Korea started. You can see it in process with China and many others. I'm not sure how taking away what little industry they have by refusing to buy their products helps these countries. While I find it said that childr…

[deleted]

Re: Are Hunter-Gatherers The Happiest Humans To Inhabit Earth?

#113

Post by rfugger »

lordnacho wrote: post #103
ivanhoe wrote: post #101

I somehow think this is an idea popular mainly among people who never had to live that way for real (and no, going for a weekend in woods for fun is not comparable). Yes, they don't have our types of stress, but it's just not true that this is stress free living. Their every single moment is fighting to survive, to collect enough water, to hunt enough meat, not to get hurt, not to get sick or injured. And they're use…

One thing to consider is people lived like this for ages and ages. So our brains are evolved to cope with that kind of living. A lot of the Kahnemann/Tversky type biases that people exhibit is because their ancestors lived in an environment similar to the bush people. Take people out, and all sorts of things happen. People get addicted to sugar, heroin, Facebook. You get unhealthy due to lack of exercise. You feel we…

> You feel weird socially because you weren't wired to interact in the modern way (fast, tenuous, no strings).

I feel a lot of the issues in our society boil down to this. Logically we should feel more secure in a modern economy because of the sheer material wealth, and yet so many of us suffer depression, anxiety, and a raft of other chronic health issues. I suspect this is at least partly because we are evolved to find security in close communal relationships with people around us, but these relationships have become more shallow in modern society.

Re: Are Hunter-Gatherers The Happiest Humans To Inhabit Earth?

#114

Post by emerged »

slededit wrote: post #79
thescribe wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel the opposite way. In my mind raw nature is chaos and unpredictability. It's hard to relax when I'm not at least in medium sized town.

Its a giant gladiator ring with animals killing each other every minute. From our perch at the top of the food chain we can call nature peaceful. I'm not sure a rabbit would feel the same way.

Part of the calm relaxing feeling many of us get being out in nature may be the comfort of knowing that we completely dominate the entire environment.

Contrast with the often hyper competitive social/city environment.

Re: Are Hunter-Gatherers The Happiest Humans To Inhabit Earth?

#115

Post by guntars »

nils-m-holm wrote: post #105
sek3 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don't have civilization today. We have a consumption machine that has gone of the rails trapping everyone from CEOs, Generals, Judges, Politicians to Janitors in mindless superficial activity. We have more in common with an ant colony than whatever civilization ideal anyone ever imagined.

And anyone who mentions it will get marginalized. :(

I doubt you or the parent commenter are going to be marginalized because of that comment is any way. The fact that you can have these beliefs and express them in a public forum is a sign of how civilized things actually are. There are plenty people alive that have lived through times where that wasn't an option. Talking to them might give you some perspective.

Re: Are Hunter-Gatherers The Happiest Humans To Inhabit Earth?

#116

Post by gyrgtyn »

haihaibye wrote: post #72
gyrgtyn wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anthropologists?

You might want to read this: https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2010/11/30/anthroscience You can now study ancient DNA as an alternative method of studying ancient history. It seems there was a lot of killing of males and capturing females leading to population replacement.

Interesting article, but it doesn't talk about DNS or killing

Re: Are Hunter-Gatherers The Happiest Humans To Inhabit Earth?

#117

Post by Can_Not »

ivanhoe wrote: post #101

I somehow think this is an idea popular mainly among people who never had to live that way for real (and no, going for a weekend in woods for fun is not comparable). Yes, they don't have our types of stress, but it's just not true that this is stress free living. Their every single moment is fighting to survive, to collect enough water, to hunt enough meat, not to get hurt, not to get sick or injured. And they're use…

> And if it's too stressful for you, is it really because of the civilization, or because of your own choices and ambitions?

Most people didn't choose their parents, their gender, their skin color, their poverty level, their childhood religious beliefs, what highschool they went to, their birth location, the job opportunities around their birth location, their spouse's choice's, their illness itenerary, etc..

So it's definitely interesting to read someine accurately describe a systematic problem then at the last second blame the victims and not the system.

Re: Are Hunter-Gatherers The Happiest Humans To Inhabit Earth?

#118

Post by lordnacho »

rfugger wrote: post #113
lordnacho wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing to consider is people lived like this for ages and ages. So our brains are evolved to cope with that kind of living. A lot of the Kahnemann/Tversky type biases that people exhibit is because their ancestors lived in an environment similar to the bush people. Take people out, and all sorts of things happen. People get addicted to sugar, heroin, Facebook. You get unhealthy due to lack of exercise. You feel we…

> You feel weird socially because you weren't wired to interact in the modern way (fast, tenuous, no strings). I feel a lot of the issues in our society boil down to this. Logically we should feel more secure in a modern economy because of the sheer material wealth, and yet so many of us suffer depression, anxiety, and a raft of other chronic health issues. I suspect this is at least partly because we are evolved to…

There was some article recently arguing that the Las Vegas shooter was lonely. I don't know about that specifically, but I've run into a lot of people who were desperate for some social contact. I wouldn't be surprised if some of them ended up committing terrible crimes because of it.

At my parents' restaurant we'd often get the odd guy (normally a man) who was there just because he wanted to see other people. The sort of person you see who'd jump at any chance to talk to someone. They'd smile at everyone else, and try get some chat going, all while dining for one. Normally it would be my dad asking the guy about his life, he is good at that.

I remember when I was much older, and eating with my family at a restaurant, there'd be a regular we'd see who'd come in for a beer, smile at everyone, and then move on to the next place, and repeat. It was a small town. Dude seemed nice enough.

For me it's always interesting to observe myself when I'm with family. I have a huge number of cousins owing to a busy grandfather. There's a pleasant yet hard-to-explain familiarity with them, because I didn't grow up with any but 5 of them. The others (dozens, I can't count and they keep finding me on FB) grew up elsewhere, but somehow I feel warm and fuzzy when they're around.

Last time we all met up it was in Vegas.

Re: Are Hunter-Gatherers The Happiest Humans To Inhabit Earth?

#119

Post by toomanybeersies »

gbog wrote: post #110
toomanybeersies wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I made a bet to avoid eating or drinking anything with added sugar for a month. It made me discover how much stuff has added sugar. Things that I would assume would be fine to eat all had added sugar. Most bread was a write off, practically every sauce, and more or less every packaged food contained sugar. To be honest, the sugar cravings weren't hard to work through, I've never really eaten much sugar, but the sheer…

> how much stuff has added sugar I depends on what is "edible stuff" to you. Carrots, meat, cabage, fish, etc. have no added sugar in them. Why not simply cook your food, like most people in the world do? From what I read here and there, Americans have completely lost foot with food, for them having a meal means to take some boxed thing out of the fridge and put it in the microwave owen for 10 mn. This is /not/ a nor…

I'm not an American. But yes, in the end, I did end up cooking all my food, not that I eat that much ready-to-eat food anyway.

The problem is that I ended up having to make practically everything from scratch. I couldn't use pasta sauces, since they all have added sugar. Most bread has added sugar as well, so no bread for me.

Re: Are Hunter-Gatherers The Happiest Humans To Inhabit Earth?

#120

Post by racer-v »

ivanhoe wrote: post #101

I somehow think this is an idea popular mainly among people who never had to live that way for real (and no, going for a weekend in woods for fun is not comparable). Yes, they don't have our types of stress, but it's just not true that this is stress free living. Their every single moment is fighting to survive, to collect enough water, to hunt enough meat, not to get hurt, not to get sick or injured. And they're use…

In such extreme times civilization is the safety net that saves your life, and that's why we come up with it, in the first place. To make our life easier.

It makes our life eaiser in those extreme times when a safety net is needed. We pay for this by spending our normal days working in office buildings and paying insurance premiums instead of fishing and picking fruit. It's a classic case of selling freedom for security.

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