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Are Hunter-Gatherers The Happiest Humans To Inhabit Earth?

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Re: Are Hunter-Gatherers The Happiest Humans To Inhabit Earth?

#61

Post by gyrgtyn »

aaron695 wrote: post #53

I find this idea horific. Rape and war are a normality in Hunter and Gather societies. I acknowledge they are fun and make us happy, in current society we farm these out to other activities like sport and computer simulations but in pre societies they are not so fun for the losers. It seems like survivor bias. If they are talking getting the best of both worlds then perhaps it's possible to move in that direction but…

> Rape and war are a normality in Hunter and Gather societies.

no

Re: Are Hunter-Gatherers The Happiest Humans To Inhabit Earth?

#63

Post by gyrgtyn »

austenallred wrote: post #29
dpark wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Watching your children die due to diseases that are totally trivial in our non-hunter-gatherer society makes you happy. oooookaaaay... FFS In fairness, people not packed into cities don’t have exactly the same issues with childhood diseases. I don’t disagree with your sentiment, by the way. I just don’t think it’s directly comparable that way. It’s also worth noting that many societies are not hunter gatherer and h…

Regardless of how you look at the statistics, modern humans are healthier and live longer on average by every measure

The 1st world at least

Re: Are Hunter-Gatherers The Happiest Humans To Inhabit Earth?

#64

Post by outworlder »

Of course they are. Hunting for food has to be better than slaving away at a corporate office. Which they can choose to do only when hungry. They were likely more fit too.

So I buy that you can be happier like that. Until you or people around you start dying of (nowadays) preventable diseases. Or because you ran into some other group and they wanted your stuff - however little that is.

Re: Are Hunter-Gatherers The Happiest Humans To Inhabit Earth?

#65

Post by jjeaff »

t1o5 wrote: post #57
3131s wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the things that was pointed out last time this topic came up (only a few weeks ago) is that most all of us who benefit from modern civilization enough so to be commenting about it on HN are enabled by massive amounts of cheap, wage-slave labor from the poorer half of the world. So while the average 9-to-5 job, smartphone-browsing lifestyle is probably preferable to the brutality of being a hunter-gatherer, if…

Exactly my thoughts, when people say they have a great work life balance at their enterprise IT company, it’s at the cost of some cheap labour outsourced somewhere. When you buy cheap cloths at Walmart or even at the brands, just have a look at the tag. Your luxury is at the cost of cheap wage slave labour or a child labour in a third world country. The new trend is 100% US based customer support. These are the very…

That cheap labor is exactly what has brought countless people out of extreme poverty in many countries that over the years have had the competitive advantage of cheap labor. This is how Japan and south Korea started. You can see it in process with China and many others.

I'm not sure how taking away what little industry they have by refusing to buy their products helps these countries.

While I find it said that children are working in many countries today, I'm also not glib enough to think that is those jobs are taken away, their parents will just send them to school instead and they'll go on to live a happy life.

Re: Are Hunter-Gatherers The Happiest Humans To Inhabit Earth?

#66

Post by thescribe »

clumsysmurf wrote: post #9

The only time I'm relaxed and feel happy is when I am out in untamed nature - seeing and hearing nature. It doesn't matter if its just a hike or "working" hard on trail maintenance. If this[1] is true, "Every 2.5 minutes, the American West loses a football field worth of natural area to human development." Walking down the street among human development just doesn't do anything for me, so I quit going outside. It see…

I feel the opposite way. In my mind raw nature is chaos and unpredictability. It's hard to relax when I'm not at least in medium sized town.

Re: Are Hunter-Gatherers The Happiest Humans To Inhabit Earth?

#67

Post by vnglst »

tonmoy wrote: post #54

Why are we trying to optimize ourselves to maximize happiness? Of course the hunter gatherers were happier, they evolved their happiness enducing brains slowly in the span of hundreds of thousands of years. In contrast we are living in a fast changing world. I think happiness can no longer keep up as being the proper reward function for success.

I agree, it's better to be Socrates dissatisfied than a pig satisfied.

Re: Are Hunter-Gatherers The Happiest Humans To Inhabit Earth?

#68

Post by ryb73 »

thescribe wrote: post #66
clumsysmurf wrote: post #9

The only time I'm relaxed and feel happy is when I am out in untamed nature - seeing and hearing nature. It doesn't matter if its just a hike or "working" hard on trail maintenance. If this[1] is true, "Every 2.5 minutes, the American West loses a football field worth of natural area to human development." Walking down the street among human development just doesn't do anything for me, so I quit going outside. It see…

I feel the opposite way. In my mind raw nature is chaos and unpredictability. It's hard to relax when I'm not at least in medium sized town.

I was going to say the same thing. If being in nature makes some people happy, that's great, but it's not a universal truth.

Re: Are Hunter-Gatherers The Happiest Humans To Inhabit Earth?

#69

Post by pvaldes »

valuearb wrote: post #39
klipt wrote: post #4

Of course, farming didn't overtake hunter-gathering because farmers are happier . It overtook because farming can feed massive armies capable of conquering hunter-gatherer land by force. Although I guess, in the end, not being conquered/enslaved/killed might make people happier.

Who says hunter gatherers didn’t conquer and enslave?

hunter/gatherer societies are always small and relatively disorganized. There is a limit to the number of people that you can feed hunting unless you are always moving to fresh territories, so there is a limit also to desire to build cities or to the number of your permanent structures. And you shouldn't allow other tribes to enter in your territory or you will suffer from hunger. You can have problems in winter or with harsh climates

Agriculture is a different history. Means big cities with big walls, easy to defend. Agriculture and farming can feed much more people so you can have a bigger army and bigger buildings with enough room for harvests (so you don't need to move in winter). Hunters/gatherers can conquer and enslave for a while but can't feed all people, and dissolve in smaller groups when reaching a critical point.

The same principle applies to the army that can conquer, but would not survive at long term without the civils that create the foods and services.

Re: Are Hunter-Gatherers The Happiest Humans To Inhabit Earth?

#70

Post by agumonkey »

tachyonbeam wrote: post #32
agumonkey wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it true or just extrapolated hint ? I like to criticize "modern" societies, but some times I think that having predictable source of food was an obvious goal for any human being.

> some times I think that having predictable source of food was an obvious goal for any human being. I don't have the citation, but IIRC, monkeys get higher dopamine spikes when success at a task is probable but not guaranteed. Having something that is unpredictable but likely to yield a reward is what motivates effort. Having a predictable supply of food is less stressful, but possibly, not as motivating. Maybe not…

Sure, I believe so too. We like randomness but not too much.

About social media my pov is that it's also a very non expensive provider of whatever hormone spike we crave. You move a finger, you get a bit of bias reinforcement, repeat. Try to read a physics book, and enjoy the unpredictability of the content.. yet less than 1% is addicted to libraries.

Maybe, maybe in the end monkeys ended up preferring teaming up (less randomness), to do random-filled activities like war. Reminds me of the article about war veteran not able to live in society after war, they craved the tension and the simplicity. War "is good".

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