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Confessions of a Failed Female Coder

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Re: Confessions of a Failed Female Coder

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most math majors are there to become math teachers, which is very people oriented. If you consider only PhD programs for math then it becomes very male dominated.

If the near-50-50 gender ratio in math is explained by math teachers, wouldn't we expect a similar ratio in physics?

Think about the market for those teachers. Anecdotally, I took one physics course in my secondary education, and about eight math courses.

Re: Confessions of a Failed Female Coder

#112

Isn't the title pretty clickbaity? I had to cheat my way through 2.5 years of comp sci in HS before I dropped AP Comp Sci BC. I never programmed a thing in all that time. I either copied from others or had a friend write any code for me. During the AP test I spent maybe 15 min on the written programming parts just writing the basics of Java and inserting BS in hopes of getting some points. Calling me a failed coder w…

You sound like Manager material. Or maybe Entrepreneur. In the real world it is perfectly legitimate to 'hire someone' to do your work for you and claim it as your own.

Maybe my verbosity got the better of me. I'm a programmer now. I'm not the best. But for web dev and certain crawling and automation I focus on, I can more than handle myself.

Programming isn't my only hat, but that is part of what I do now. And for some time I exclusively freelanced as a programmer.

Re: Confessions of a Failed Female Coder

#113
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every time I hear someone mention behavioral differences due to the biological differences between men and women, my response (that I'm stealing from my professor) is that the differences amongst men and women outweigh the differences between men and women. Applied to this topic, that means that you're going to find people that prefer these different learning styles on both sides of the gender gap. Also, I feel like…

> Every time I hear someone mention behavioral differences due to the biological differences between men and women, my response (that I'm stealing from my professor) is that the differences amongst men and women outweigh the differences between men and women. Applied to this topic, that means that you're going to find people that prefer these different learning styles on both sides of the gender gap. That's a nice se…

> That's a nice sentiment, but it's not actually very true.

It's literally textbook science. Like, if you pick up a university psychology textbook on sex and gender, you will probably find that statement in it.

It's based on evidence, not sentiment. That pattern is exactly what you see when you look at graphs showing the distribution of results broken down by gender on a whole bunch of physical and psychological tests.

Re: Confessions of a Failed Female Coder

#114
post #76

I am more the lone wolf type myself. I am fine with collaborating, actually enjoy it when needed, but I prefer doing the majority of my work alone or with a small team and banging my/our head against a problem until I/we have figured it out. What's starting to bother me is that there is a trend where extroverted people (like her I assume) try to change education and workplaces to suit their style but introverted peop…

I am a female software engineer who is an introvert too. It's wrong to assume that men want to work alone and women want to work with people... it ignores a lot individuals like me. I currently work in an open office environment and find it very hard to concentrate with people around me. I don't want people to assume that bc I'm female I want to work with people. I really really don't. People should stop trying to fo…

I agree - female coder as well. I enjoy coding itself. Doesn't need to be collaborative unless there is a purpose to it for me.

Re: Confessions of a Failed Female Coder

#116
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am all for discovering new learning techniques to help woman but as a woman who got my degree in computer science, I can't help but doubt this. I would describe much of the subject matter in my classes to appear "dry" or unenthused at times but I've talked to men who perceived computer science in the same way - and only came to learn it and appreciate it later in their lives. There were subjects I was required to t…

You're probably just not representative of the typical woman. In any discussion of how to improve gender representation in CS there's always some women that chime in to say they were drawn to the field for the same reasons that men were. I think you and people like you are better represented by the 15% of women that do go into CS despite whatever keeps other women out. Unfortunately, programs to make CS appeal to gir…

This is the part I am unconvinced about - that "collaboration" is the issue at all. It seems like an easy go-to based on older assumptions. But plenty of woman I know I think would love tech but know nothing about it - but rather than what I feel are misconceptions that they would not enjoy it or could not meaningfully contribute.

Re: Confessions of a Failed Female Coder

#117
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Every time I hear someone mention behavioral differences due to the biological differences between men and women, my response (that I'm stealing from my professor) is that the differences amongst men and women outweigh the differences between men and women. Applied to this topic, that means that you're going to find people that prefer these different learning styles on both sides of the gender gap. That's a nice se…

> That's a nice sentiment, but it's not actually very true. It's literally textbook science. Like, if you pick up a university psychology textbook on sex and gender, you will probably find that statement in it. It's based on evidence, not sentiment. That pattern is exactly what you see when you look at graphs showing the distribution of results broken down by gender on a whole bunch of physical and psychological test…

Yes, of course the variance of the distributions is greater than the mean difference. That is trivial. But it ignores the actual point. Mean population differences have practical population-level effects. The fact that internal variance exceeds the mean difference is inconsequential and meaningless.

Re: Confessions of a Failed Female Coder

#118
post #104
post #55

There seems to be a bit of a contradiction in her post: > Despite the cargo shorts and the loner attitude, I learned like a girl. And: > it was an all-girls school, and every single other woman who took that computer science class that year became an engineer or scientist. Hmm, it sounds more like she has a different learning style, which is not necessarily down to her femaleness. That said, I think that at a fundame…

> we gain richer insights when we take both into account If there really were fundamental differences, that would not be possible. When I take someone elses viewpoint or way of thinking or anything else that is fundamentally different from what I know "into account", what I really take into account what I imagine that other viewpoint to be, cobbled together from the things I do know. I don't say this to contradict, I…

> If there really were fundamental differences, that would not be possible.

I'm not really sure if I understood your point properly - I've clarified elsewhere in this thread that this was an assumption, and gender isn't the only factor in the differences of the ways we think (so when I said "both" in my parent comment, this is because I am looking at the situation solely with the gender lens).

But I share with the general sentiment of your post. I'm don't really care for fundamental differences etc, even if we have them, so what, it still doesn't change the fact that diversity is generally a great thing. I also found empathy goes a long way, IMO that's the only way to deal with diversity and cut past discrimination. Of course there are also the intellectual and material rewards of diversity that we are all familiar with...

Goodness, it's so hard to explain this, forgive me if this is just more confusing than ever.

Re: Confessions of a Failed Female Coder

#119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>People should stop trying to force women as a category into computer science, and just focus on the individual. That would be ideal. I think the reason they have to "force" anything is because of the gender gaps that get reported. But yes, any manager shouldn't make assumptions about how someone wants to work, or will excel at work, based on gender. Separately, I hope the gender gaps in computer science or math etc.…

But then you should also expose people to education and career choices in a personality type neutral manner. School was a pretty tough ride for me because I am shy and introvert although I am a white male. Gender and race are not the only dimensions along which people can get discriminated. There are also looks, being outgoing or not, athletic skills, fashion tastes and many others.

Our taxonomies for personality traits and human grouping is quite primitive. Our ability to categorise people in useful ways is really atrocious. So often we force that category on people, because that's easier then improving our categorization.

Hopefully, this improves in the future, starting with medicine amd nutrition, there's more discourse happening about the individual characteristics. But I'm afraid its a hard problem, accurate genes and gut microbiome measurements could maybe improve things. But then correlating these with behaviourial traits and emotional well being is incredibly hard.

Re: Confessions of a Failed Female Coder

#120
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How did Damore went of to deep end of far right politics?

Have you seen his subreddit? Or his comments about the KKK?

You mean his comment where he got out of his way to first repeatedly say he does not approve of KKK in any way? What’s with the feigned outrage?
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