Confessions of a Failed Female Coder • Hacker News Board

Re: Confessions of a Failed Female Coder

#91

Post by ghaff » Sat, Oct 07, 2017, 7:11 PM UTC

walshemj wrote: post #50

21 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, you weren't paying attention :) She mentioned it a few times - girls like colaborative learning, not lone-wolf learning, and she also put a link in - https://ncgsblog.org/2016/09/12/how-girls-learn-best/

Does this also apply to other branches of engineering, medicine and lawyers.

There are some degrees/fields that involve more group projects and classes that are more discussion-based than pure lecture. I almost certainly did less work purely by myself for my MBA than my engineering degrees. But pretty much any degree that isn't hands-on/apprenticeship based is going to involve a lot of individual reading/studying/cranking through problems/etc.

Re: Confessions of a Failed Female Coder

#92

Post by jansho » Sat, Oct 07, 2017, 7:12 PM UTC

skinnymuch wrote: post #83

jansho wrote: post #55

There seems to be a bit of a contradiction in her post: > Despite the cargo shorts and the loner attitude, I learned like a girl. And: > it was an all-girls school, and every single other woman who took that computer science class that year became an engineer or scientist. Hmm, it sounds more like she has a different learning style, which is not necessarily down to her femaleness. That said, I think that at a fundame…

Is there a specific part of what you're referring to with > This is why I dislike Damore. I don't care what his manifesto says, but I bet that he knew exactly what he was doing. Playing games is pathetic, dude. I haven't read the manifesto and don't want to procrastinate now. Are you saying he knew his stuff about women being inferior for the work Googlers do (which I wholly disagree with) was him partially BSing and…

I haven't read it either, and won't like to. After his arrogant/weird responses, I'm sure it's pure intellectual bullshit. I don't know what his exact motive was, but he sure seems to enjoy the storms he's caused. I just dislike people like that.

Re: Confessions of a Failed Female Coder

#93

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Oct 07, 2017, 7:17 PM UTC

jansho wrote: post #92

skinnymuch wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a specific part of what you're referring to with > This is why I dislike Damore. I don't care what his manifesto says, but I bet that he knew exactly what he was doing. Playing games is pathetic, dude. I haven't read the manifesto and don't want to procrastinate now. Are you saying he knew his stuff about women being inferior for the work Googlers do (which I wholly disagree with) was him partially BSing and…

I haven't read it either, and won't like to. After his arrogant/weird responses, I'm sure it's pure intellectual bullshit. I don't know what his exact motive was, but he sure seems to enjoy the storms he's caused. I just dislike people like that.

[deleted]

Re: Confessions of a Failed Female Coder

#94

Post by WillPostForFood » Sat, Oct 07, 2017, 7:18 PM UTC

walshemj wrote: post #82

mirko22 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How did Damore went of to deep end of far right politics?

You need me to explain that to you? google and all sv countries are majority centre right at best.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are in the UK and not SV to make a statement like that. The Bay Area is on the vanguard of the far left. SV companies range from far left, to left. Anyone vaguely center right pretends to be a libertarian otherwise they'd never get a job or invited to parties.

Re: Confessions of a Failed Female Coder

#95

Post by reboog711 » Sat, Oct 07, 2017, 7:18 PM UTC

skinnymuch wrote: post #30

Isn't the title pretty clickbaity? I had to cheat my way through 2.5 years of comp sci in HS before I dropped AP Comp Sci BC. I never programmed a thing in all that time. I either copied from others or had a friend write any code for me. During the AP test I spent maybe 15 min on the written programming parts just writing the basics of Java and inserting BS in hopes of getting some points. Calling me a failed coder w…

You sound like Manager material. Or maybe Entrepreneur.

In the real world it is perfectly legitimate to 'hire someone' to do your work for you and claim it as your own.

Re: Confessions of a Failed Female Coder

#96

Post by hackinthebochs » Sat, Oct 07, 2017, 7:18 PM UTC

matt4077 wrote: post #47

GhostVII wrote: post #21

It's interesting that a lot of her experiences are similar to what the Google manifesto said - that currently, computer science is more targeted towards the way men learn and work than the way women learn and work. Although she was focusing more on the education side of things versus the work side, the core message seems to be that men and women learn and work differently, and that needs to be addressed to get more w…

I thought the guy's behaviour after he was fired had put this "he's just interested in science" myth.

When you've just been fired and seemingly the entire world is against you, you're going to be drawn to the only group that provides you support (in his case the alt-right). It's just human nature. It is a serious mistake to deduce the motives for his original memo from this.

Re: Confessions of a Failed Female Coder

#97

Post by hackinthebochs » Sat, Oct 07, 2017, 7:23 PM UTC

taysic wrote: post #79

GhostVII wrote: post #21

It's interesting that a lot of her experiences are similar to what the Google manifesto said - that currently, computer science is more targeted towards the way men learn and work than the way women learn and work. Although she was focusing more on the education side of things versus the work side, the core message seems to be that men and women learn and work differently, and that needs to be addressed to get more w…

I am all for discovering new learning techniques to help woman but as a woman who got my degree in computer science, I can't help but doubt this. I would describe much of the subject matter in my classes to appear "dry" or unenthused at times but I've talked to men who perceived computer science in the same way - and only came to learn it and appreciate it later in their lives. There were subjects I was required to t…

You're probably just not representative of the typical woman. In any discussion of how to improve gender representation in CS there's always some women that chime in to say they were drawn to the field for the same reasons that men were. I think you and people like you are better represented by the 15% of women that do go into CS despite whatever keeps other women out. Unfortunately, programs to make CS appeal to girls will almost certainly ignore people like you.

Re: Confessions of a Failed Female Coder

#98

Post by ghaff » Sat, Oct 07, 2017, 7:23 PM UTC

skinnymuch wrote: post #88

ghaff wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And it's not just courses. Many types of work bias toward people who are just fine with locking themselves in a room/the library stacks/a lab for a week to work through some problem. It's a completely different mindset from someone who likes doing sales or PR work. It's not that there aren't people who can do a good job with both. But some things certainly come more naturally to some people than they do to others.

100% agree with your entire comment. People are just different. I recently learned guitar for the first time using one of those Guitar Hero games but you play with a real electric guitar. Two friends commented how if I haven't gotten to learning it after multiple attempts, gamification won't work. But it did. This isn't the first time gamification has worked on me. For whatever reason, gamification [and accountabilit…

I'm of the school of thought that the tech industry should absolutely take affirmative steps to encourage and make it possible for people with a wider set of skills and backgrounds to enter and do well in tech. At the same time we have to accept that people and roles are different. I work with a lot of engineers. I also work with a lot of PR people and, especially at agencies, they conform to at least as much of a demographic/behavioral stereotype as software developers do.

Re: Confessions of a Failed Female Coder

#99

Post by searealist » Sat, Oct 07, 2017, 7:24 PM UTC

michaelt wrote: post #85

searealist wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most math majors are there to become math teachers, which is very people oriented. If you consider only PhD programs for math then it becomes very male dominated.

If the near-50-50 gender ratio in math is explained by math teachers, wouldn't we expect a similar ratio in physics?

I'm not sure what you are claiming.

Re: Confessions of a Failed Female Coder

#100

Post by walshemj » Sat, Oct 07, 2017, 7:26 PM UTC

WillPostForFood wrote: post #94

walshemj wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need me to explain that to you? google and all sv countries are majority centre right at best.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are in the UK and not SV to make a statement like that. The Bay Area is on the vanguard of the far left. SV companies range from far left, to left. Anyone vaguely center right pretends to be a libertarian otherwise they'd never get a job or invited to parties.

Realy? SV is in no way far left wing god only knows what you think I am :-)

If SV's so left wing where's the union branches and if its so far left why are not their UK office unionised :-)

If Google Fb ect want to come into the light let me know and I will have a word with the right people and have a branch sorted out before xmass - might help to have a friend if Jeremy wins the next election.