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iOS 11's Misleading "Off-Ish" Setting for Radios Is Bad for User Security

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Re: iOS 11's Misleading "Off-Ish" Setting for Radios Is Bad for User Security

#251

Post by Ensorceled »

MBCook wrote: post #15
codefined wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This change would be absolutely fine to me if it were communicated to the user in any way whatsoever . The fact that I can upgrade and have no idea the behaviour unless I happen to read an EFF blogpost in the few hours it appears on HN isn't acceptable. Note how they even use privacy as one of the main (at least, in my opinion) selling point for Apple devices[0] ("Every Apple product is designed from the ground up to…

It IS communicated. If you just pull up control center and tap the button is says “Disconnected from ‘WiFiNetwork’”. If you expand the panel with 3D Touch or a long press under the WiFi icon it either says WiFiName or Not Connected. On the other hand the cellular radio says Off if you toggle it. This isn’t completely hidden. The information is there. And I agree with the other posters that this is a far better settin…

I’m completely flummoxed as to why you believe the phrase “Disconnected from {A WiFi}” communicates the complex idea that it’s only partially and temporarily disabled?

This really sounds like members of my dev team trying to explain why their terrible UX is actually quite clever.

Re: iOS 11's Misleading "Off-Ish" Setting for Radios Is Bad for User Security

#252

Post by Ensorceled »

jwong_ wrote: post #108
dvcrn wrote: post #23

I hate this. I have a ton of wifi hotspots setup in the city, some of them require authentication, some of them don't. I leave work, mount my phone on my bike, "turn off" WiFi and cycle before realizing that nothing (like maps) is updating because I connected to a wifi point that needs authentication, or a point that is now far away because I already cycled by. While cycling, I reach to my phone and switch it "off" a…

If you want to be off wifi why not just fully turn it off? It seems like you want it to be off for a long time. Going into settings to turn off the radio doesn't seem to be hugely laborious if you really do want it off for the entire ride.

The entire point is they thought they did turn it off. Are you being deliberately obtuse?

Re: iOS 11's Misleading "Off-Ish" Setting for Radios Is Bad for User Security

#253

Post by Ensorceled »

cassowary wrote: post #175
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This decision seems so fundamentally "anti-Apple". What happened to "it just works"? Heck, they could have even promoted a third option as being super innovative (not like it is, but marketing "Now with 'WiFi Safe Sleep!' or something like that would have been the old Apple way).

Yes. Apple used to be about empowering people. That's what ease of use was about. You can keep doing the same thing and you get the same result, but when you're ready you can finally press that button you've always ignored. You'll discover something new which you might want to undo. But that's fine too, because it's clear and obvious how to. This meant they got a reputation for building easy-to-use tools. This meant…

To be fair, Apple apologists have been saying things like “You’re holding it wrong” for a while now.

Re: iOS 11's Misleading "Off-Ish" Setting for Radios Is Bad for User Security

#254

Post by Ensorceled »

MBCook wrote: post #16
Perceptes wrote: post #10

This has bugged me too since upgrading to iOS 11. I understand the motivation for the change, but it was not necessary to make the UI misleading. It should very clearly indicate between "off" and "off-ish," and allow switching to a true off state, perhaps by long-pressing the icon to get additional options, like how several other control center panels work.

The messages the display at the top of the screen when you tap the icons were the labels below the icons if you expand the panel clearly show whether the radios are off or just disconnected.

There is a rule in UX Design that if you have to explain the UX to people it’s a bad UX.

Re: iOS 11's Misleading "Off-Ish" Setting for Radios Is Bad for User Security

#255

Post by Ensorceled »

jachee wrote: post #163
neotek wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Turning off "ask to join networks" also stops your phone from connecting to open networks automatically. It will still autoconnect to networks that you have previously connected to, though, unless you explicitly tell it to forget that network.

Exactly. Also: auto-joining open WiFi networks—especially generically-named ones—is a pretty serious security risk. So easy to spoof an SSID and capture everything that's traversing it.

Unless you use a VPN.

Re: iOS 11's Misleading "Off-Ish" Setting for Radios Is Bad for User Security

#256

Post by KozmoNau7 »

IBM wrote: post #154
jonahx wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The UI informs the user directly that they're disconnecting from a network. I'm honestly confused... Do you really believe that most users have distinct concepts in their mental model for "wifi off" and "disconnected from a network"? They look at the button, it's not blue anymore, it's off. Then later they think... "Wait how did this randomly turn on again?" I believe this will be the experience even of the majorit…

Most users when turning "off" Wi-Fi, particularly from the control center, are doing so to get them off whatever network they're on. What their mental model is for what "Wi-Fi off" is doesn't matter because the user shouldn't be responsible for managing the radios in their phone. And any of them that do try to are probably under the impression that it saves them battery life, when it actually doesn't (unless connecte…

Nonsense. Literally every single smartphone before iOS 11 had a simple toggle switch for wifi on/off. This is now the expected behavior, this is what people expect to happen. They are conditioned by now, to switch off wifi by pressing the wifi button, and to have to turn it back on manually.

If Apple wants to change this paradigm, they have to be very very careful about it. And they obviously haven't been.

Re: iOS 11's Misleading "Off-Ish" Setting for Radios Is Bad for User Security

#257

Post by KozmoNau7 »

Pyxl101 wrote: post #208
IBM wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most users when turning "off" Wi-Fi, particularly from the control center, are doing so to get them off whatever network they're on. What their mental model is for what "Wi-Fi off" is doesn't matter because the user shouldn't be responsible for managing the radios in their phone. And any of them that do try to are probably under the impression that it saves them battery life, when it actually doesn't (unless connecte…

I will concede that I almost always used the "bluetooth off" button in order to disconnect my current bluetooth device. I did this because it was faster and more convenient than going into the Settings menu and disconnecting that device specifically. It's fewer clicks this way. So if most iPhone users are using these buttons to disconnect from their current network, or to disconnect the current bluetooth device, then…

When I manually disconnect from a network or a bluetooth device, I want it to stay off until I specifically ask it to reconnect.

Re: iOS 11's Misleading "Off-Ish" Setting for Radios Is Bad for User Security

#258

Post by joshuakarjala »

morganvachon wrote: post #74
jonahx wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No. It is in an attempt to resolve the real loss of money... Naked apologism. So unthoughtful, and delivered with such a righteous tone. If this was their intention, they could have implemented the feature honestly, informing users about what was happening, and offering a clear choice, such as an immediate popup, between "turn off for this location" and "turn off completely." That would have been fine. But the exis…

"offering the option to actually turn the services off." I'm not getting into the rest of your discussion, but I think you completely missed that you can indeed actually turn them off via 3D touch. Even on non-3D touch devices like the iPad mini, you can get to the "actually off" toggles by long-pressing the icons. Sure, it's somewhat of an extra step, but it's misleading to claim that the option doesn't exist when i…

no you can't - or please step-by-step explain how you achieve this

Re: iOS 11's Misleading "Off-Ish" Setting for Radios Is Bad for User Security

#259

Post by morganvachon »

josteink wrote: post #166
morganvachon wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"offering the option to actually turn the services off." I'm not getting into the rest of your discussion, but I think you completely missed that you can indeed actually turn them off via 3D touch. Even on non-3D touch devices like the iPad mini, you can get to the "actually off" toggles by long-pressing the icons. Sure, it's somewhat of an extra step, but it's misleading to claim that the option doesn't exist when i…

> I think you completely missed that you can indeed actually turn them off via 3D touch My iPhone SE doesn't have 3D touch, or if it does, I have no idea what it is. So as far as I know, no, I don't have that option.

As I said, long-press on non 3D touch devices opens the same box.

Re: iOS 11's Misleading "Off-Ish" Setting for Radios Is Bad for User Security

#260

Post by sumeno »

briandear wrote: post #221
userbinator wrote: post #22

In other words, the WiFi actually has 3 states: Off, Idle/disassociated/disconnected, and Connected/Associated. Most people have experienced all 3 states, but it seems Apple is under the impression that users are too stupid to know the difference between them... The Wi-Fi will turn back full-on if you drive or walk to a new location. And both Wi-Fi and Bluetooth will turn back on at 5:00 AM. This is not clearly expla…

Use Siri. Or use airplane mode. This isn’t that hard. What’s the use case where you want to completely kill WiFi but not Bluetooth for “security?” If I am in a security sensitive environment, I use airplane mode. That’s it’s purpose: to completely shut down all radios.

Airplane mode also turns off cellular data.

Personally, I only want Bluetooth on when I'm intentionally using it, but having to go into settings to turn it on and off is cumbersome when I used to be able to toggle it from the control panel.

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