I find it strange that no one here on hn is pointing out that maybe Apple has changed things due to the fact that they want your radio data...
iOS 11's Misleading "Off-Ish" Setting for Radios Is Bad for User Security
231–240 of 342 posts
Re: iOS 11's Misleading "Off-Ish" Setting for Radios Is Bad for User Security
#232In general, iOS isn’t very friendly to users who favour 3G/4G over WiFi. I’ve got unlimited data on my LTE plan but very shaky WiFi at home. I can’t start an iCloud backup without WiFi and can’t download apps or updates over a certain size. And now WiFi miraculously turns itself back on after I turn it off in Control Center (as I’ve done for some time). If I want it off I’ve got to dig through Settings. Changing defa…
I'm on unlimited data plan too, I was constantly running into the device refusing to do what I wanted because it was trying to protect me from imaginary "unexpected charges". Strangely enough it was actually much nicer using my Android phone as the hotspot for my MacBook instead of the iPhone, because (recognizing the iPhone) it refused to auto-connect (probably those "charges" again eh?), and it would turn off the h…
> I guess their philosophy is something like, "Make 80% of people happy and totally disregard everyone else."
Which probably makes sense financially...
Re: iOS 11's Misleading "Off-Ish" Setting for Radios Is Bad for User Security
#233Earlier quoted context omitted.
> resolve the real loss of money experienced by everyday users who turn off WiFi The way I've run every smartphone I've owned is to turn off mobile data, WiFi, and Bluetooth and only turn them on as and when I need them. I prefer it to work that way. The way this works in iOS 11 is now inconsistent and confusing. I can turn mobile data on and off via Control Centre. But, while I can turn WiFi on in Control Centre, I…
> The way I've run every smartphone I've owned is to turn off mobile data, WiFi, and Bluetooth and only turn them on as and when I need them Okay, but you have to accept that this is a ridiculously small minority use case.
It's not a minority use case. It's just a use case that is poorly accommodated by a large majority of smartphones. This leads to much higher data usage and higher revenue for carriers than would be the case if smartphones were a little more on the user's side.
I have a smartphone that offers reasonable controls on cellular data use on a per-app basis, in addition to easy system-wide toggles for WiFi and cellular data. It's easy for me to keep cellular data off most of the time, as I'm usually within WiFi range or taking short trips (eg. grocery shopping) where there's no inconvenience to being offline for a while. As a result, I get great battery life out of my phone and don't need a multi-GB data plan unless I'm traveling for most of the month. The TCO for my smartphone is a small fraction of what's typical with an iPhone on a major carrier, but I have full access to the capabilities of my smartphone and its LTE connection, when I decide to use them.
Re: iOS 11's Misleading "Off-Ish" Setting for Radios Is Bad for User Security
#234I hate this. I have a ton of wifi hotspots setup in the city, some of them require authentication, some of them don't. I leave work, mount my phone on my bike, "turn off" WiFi and cycle before realizing that nothing (like maps) is updating because I connected to a wifi point that needs authentication, or a point that is now far away because I already cycled by. While cycling, I reach to my phone and switch it "off" a…
Can't you just turn off wifi's promiscuous mode? I forget all wifi points except for any place I regularly go. LTE is good enough for cafes and the like.
> I have a ton of wifi hotspots setup in the city
Presumably they are cycling past places they visit.
Re: iOS 11's Misleading "Off-Ish" Setting for Radios Is Bad for User Security
#235Earlier quoted context omitted.
> resolve the real loss of money experienced by everyday users who turn off WiFi The way I've run every smartphone I've owned is to turn off mobile data, WiFi, and Bluetooth and only turn them on as and when I need them. I prefer it to work that way. The way this works in iOS 11 is now inconsistent and confusing. I can turn mobile data on and off via Control Centre. But, while I can turn WiFi on in Control Centre, I…
> The way this works in iOS 11 is now inconsistent and confusing I really don't see how the apologists can deny this. In iOS every UI control to toggle something on or off toggles things on or off... They all have the same UI presentation, and shows the same affordances, leading the user to expect the same behaviour. And that they have. Everywhere except for wifi. Who in their right mind though this was a good idea?…
Interestingly, my stock HTC One M7 suffers the same problem, but in regards to Location.
Enabling/disabling Location in the quick settings menu only changes Location settings between Low Accuracy and High Accuracy.
I have to open the phone settings, then go into Location, to then be able to completely turn it off.
Re: iOS 11's Misleading "Off-Ish" Setting for Radios Is Bad for User Security
#236In general, iOS isn’t very friendly to users who favour 3G/4G over WiFi. I’ve got unlimited data on my LTE plan but very shaky WiFi at home. I can’t start an iCloud backup without WiFi and can’t download apps or updates over a certain size. And now WiFi miraculously turns itself back on after I turn it off in Control Center (as I’ve done for some time). If I want it off I’ve got to dig through Settings. Changing defa…
Instead of messing with impractical workarounds, why not just fix your wifi ?
Re: iOS 11's Misleading "Off-Ish" Setting for Radios Is Bad for User Security
#237Earlier quoted context omitted.
> hn_throwaway_99 Is really HN so hostile to statements critical of anything Apple does that you actually need to create a throwaway for it? To me, that seems a bit extreme. Edit: Not so throwaway after all then. Didn't consider checking.
created: 228 days ago
Age doesn't make the account not a throwaway. Number and frequency of comments, and variety of topic, make it not a throwaway.
Re: iOS 11's Misleading "Off-Ish" Setting for Radios Is Bad for User Security
#238Apple technically does show the difference, but it is very very subtle, and most users would never notice unless told so.
Connected state = Blue background color
Disconnected state = Gray background color (Force Touch shows "Not Connected")
Off state = Gray background with gray slash across the icon (Force Touch shows "Off")
Re: iOS 11's Misleading "Off-Ish" Setting for Radios Is Bad for User Security
#239> In an attempt to keep you connected to Apple devices and services, iOS 11 compromises users' security. No. It is in an attempt to resolve the real loss of money experienced by everyday users who turn off WiFi when it’s flakey and then forget to turn it back on, costing them cash on their cellular data plan. (And the very real frustration when things don’t work they expect to work, and they don’t know why.) Meanwhil…
So, is this a US only feature?
Is excess data usage severely penalized financially in other countries?
Re: iOS 11's Misleading "Off-Ish" Setting for Radios Is Bad for User Security
#240Earlier quoted context omitted.
> At this point I’m not sure there’s a need for normal users to actually turn off Wi-Fi. Or anyone who doesn’t want to be tracked by random retailers. I worked for one such company, so I know intimately how it works, including how MAC address randomization doesn’t actually work in the real world at completely obscuring your device.
Does this work even if my device newer connects to the retailer's "free" WiFi?
As long as the wifi radio is enabled, yes.