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Footage shows young elephants being captured for Chinese zoos

theguardian.com

41–50 of 86 posts

Re: Footage shows young elephants being captured for Chinese zoos

#41
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry for the confusion - I summed up meat and egg production. However I believe that, same as with pigs/boars, male chicken meat isn't too desirable either, and you don't want male chickens fighting in the herd or impregnating the hens.

Broilers are slaughtered as juveniles so the meat is essentially indistinguishable. To be clear, I'm not pro-factory farming or chicken cruelty. Just saying that when you buy a broiler chicken, it's about 50% likely to be a male.

Hmm. Did some more research. Seems that male chickens are discouraged for meat because they grow slower and need more food to gain the same net meat: https://web.archive.org/web/20131226071033/http://www.br.de/...

Might be possible that's a German uniqueness, can't tell about the US.

Re: Footage shows young elephants being captured for Chinese zoos

#42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As families. Not condoning it, but these young elephants are pretty likely to die.

Ah. So if China were to capture entire families of elephants, you'd be ok with it? I'm just trying to determine where the line is. I went to a zoo a couple months ago. The elephants' tusks were cut, presumably so that the elephants wouldn't be able to impale each other. That was a bit too sad for me to want to go back to zoos anymore.

I go to zoos somewhat frequently, mostly the National Zoo in D.C. and Omaha zoo, both well-regarded. Neither or them cut the tusks of their elephants. I wouldn't expect any zoo would cut the tusk to prevent them from harming one another, because elephants are perfectly capable of killing each other without the tusks. There are a couple reasons why you might have seen that, aside from animal cruelty.

1. They were rescued from another facility that cut the tusks.

2. The tusks weren't actually cut. You don't elaborate on what you mean by "cut," perhaps you mean you see the large base of tusks but very short and clearly cut by a saw or something. But if you just mean the tusks are very short or absent, that's actually somewhat common, especially in Asian elephants.

3. Depending on where this zoo is, the zoo could have been worried about poachers. There have been incidents where poachers have broken into zoos and killing elephants and rhinos for their ivory.

In response to your question about capturing elephants in the wild, my response is that the primary moral imperative here is the preservation of the species. If the limited capture of a small number of elephants was being done as part of a plan to reintroduce elephants to a region where they have gone extinct, I would be in favor of that. If these elephants were going to a respected zoo as part of a breeding program with goals to re-vitalize the species, I would be in favor of that. I would even consider arguments that taking a few elephants to a respected zoo for research or education purposes would be better for the long-term survival of the species, though I generally reject that idea because there are a sufficient number of elephants available for rescue that are not capable of entering/returning to the wild.

As an example, the African elephants at the Omaha zoo previously lived in a wildlife preserve in Swaziland. But a record drought threatened their survival. By moving the elephants to a zoo, they reduced the elephant population in the park, leaving enough resources for the other animals in the park to survive. http://www.omaha.com/living/zoo/year-later-elephants-have-ma...

Re: Footage shows young elephants being captured for Chinese zoos

#43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I added an answer to this at the bottom of my comment.

Great article, thanks for sharing. > "...1) We like them, 2) The biosphere provides trillions of dollars to the global economy, 3) Loss of species impacts ecological systems and puts us at risk as we depend on them for survival." Is there a non-selfish reason, that is morally justifiable, for preventing species extinction?

Considering these arguments or normally made to people thinking of humanity first, non-selfish arguments wouldn't make much sense to use. Consider the audience of the argument.

Re: Footage shows young elephants being captured for Chinese zoos

#44

You guys should consider donating to the International Anti-Poaching Foundation[0][1] which fights these poachers. The founder, Damien Mander[2], is an Australian ex spec-ops sniper who is using his military experience to train the park rangers since they, unlike the poachers, tend to be poorly equipped and trained as well as understaffed. There is also the David Sheldrick Wildlife Trust[3][4] which takes care of ele…

Out of curiosity, are these organizations literally fighting poachers? I.e. we're saying that an elephant's life is more valuable than a human's? That's an interesting moral question.

From those specific "humans"? Definitely yes. Humans like those, who harm other creatures just to make profit, deserve to die.

Re: Footage shows young elephants being captured for Chinese zoos

#45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Harmers are less valuable than victims, regardless of species. All consciousness should be respected.

Depends why they're causing harm. Nothing is ever black and white.

    > Nothing is ever black and white.
This is true, but I feel like people claiming this often intend to imply that everything is exactly 50% gray which is also never the case.

Re: Footage shows young elephants being captured for Chinese zoos

#46

You guys should consider donating to the International Anti-Poaching Foundation[0][1] which fights these poachers. The founder, Damien Mander[2], is an Australian ex spec-ops sniper who is using his military experience to train the park rangers since they, unlike the poachers, tend to be poorly equipped and trained as well as understaffed. There is also the David Sheldrick Wildlife Trust[3][4] which takes care of ele…

Out of curiosity, are these organizations literally fighting poachers? I.e. we're saying that an elephant's life is more valuable than a human's? That's an interesting moral question.

Is an elephant’s life more valuable than a randomly selected human? Probably not.

Is an elephant’s life worth more than someone who poaches endangered animals? Probably.

Also, these poachers are usually armed and willing to kill for their poach. The best defense against an idiot with a WWII export AK variant is a smarter person with a much longer-range weapon.

Re: Footage shows young elephants being captured for Chinese zoos

#47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I added an answer to this at the bottom of my comment.

Great article, thanks for sharing. > "...1) We like them, 2) The biosphere provides trillions of dollars to the global economy, 3) Loss of species impacts ecological systems and puts us at risk as we depend on them for survival." Is there a non-selfish reason, that is morally justifiable, for preventing species extinction?

How is to not jeopardize the ecological system a selfish reason?

Re: Footage shows young elephants being captured for Chinese zoos

#48
I wonder if legalizing the sale of elephants, rhino horns, etc. (but still protecting the ones in the wild) would lead to a sort of positive version of the https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobra_effect

After all, if you can make tons of money selling rhino horns (but know you’ll get shot if you kill an existing rhino to do it), people might start putting a lot of money into rhino farms, which could be good for the global population size.

Re: Footage shows young elephants being captured for Chinese zoos

#49
There are zoos all over the world with animals from africa.

I'm against all zoos personally, but who cares if they are for chinese zoos?

Britain has a bunch of zoos with elephants, rhinos and all kinds of animals from africa. Is it bad because it is for the chinese?

Re: Footage shows young elephants being captured for Chinese zoos

#50
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Broilers are slaughtered as juveniles so the meat is essentially indistinguishable. To be clear, I'm not pro-factory farming or chicken cruelty. Just saying that when you buy a broiler chicken, it's about 50% likely to be a male.

Hmm. Did some more research. Seems that male chickens are discouraged for meat because they grow slower and need more food to gain the same net meat: https://web.archive.org/web/20131226071033/http://www.br.de/... Might be possible that's a German uniqueness, can't tell about the US.

My understanding has always been that for broilers, the difference is minimal. And so farms raise both.

For older chickens, yes. The difference is important.

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